Mugabe men 'use rape as revenge'

Electronic Telegraph ^ | 25/08/2002 | Christina Lamb in Manicaland

[Le-Roy]

There is a real difference between stating an opinion, and initiating massive death and destruction upon thousands of people simply because one of them disagrees with your opinion.

I realize that distinction might be hard for you to comprehend, since you are so enamored of using the proxy of state power to bludgeon those with whom you disagree.

[Le-Roy]

You do realize that your view of history conflicts with what is being taught in many schools across the country today?

Saw a letter to the editor. The writer, a black man, was extolling the numerous virtues of the black race, in the course of which he made the comment, "We built the pyramids." There are a great many today who believe similarly - mostly on the basis of the half-formed hypotheses of two or three 'historians'.

[KDD]

Well...there IS a lot to be said for pragmatism.

[KDD]

If we can't save all the people on a sinking ship, should we save any of them at all then? That is the analogy.

[Askel5]

You think?

I think they'd have had to invent it (sorta like they did ...) for the West to wreck itself with all due confidence that it was always choosing the "lesser evil" for the "greatest good".

Self-delusion en masse.

[KDD]

I would like to think the disparate results are "unintended consequences" of what were well intentioned policies. But I am not naive. Power is the currency of our policies. As long as there is a U.N., and we are members of it we'll probably keep biting ourselves in the butt.

[Le-Roy]

Okay, to use your analogy (but change the question) - which would be more in keeping with the principles we, as Americans, espouse

• To offer a helping hand to those who wish to be helped?

  - or -

• To shoot half the passengers and crew so you can get to the captain and kill him, because you just know it's his fault the ship is going down, all the while ignoring those you could have helped, because you have your mind fixed on a particular agenda?

[KDD]

Okay, to use your analogy (but change the question) - which would be more in keeping with the principles we, as Americans, espouse

American principals often stand on shifting sands.

To offer a helping hand to those who wish to be helped?

You mean like with Mexico?

To shoot half the passengers and crew so you can get to the captain and kill him, because you just know it's his fault the ship is going down, all the while ignoring those you could have helped, because you have your mind fixed on a particular agenda?

Japan...WWII? Whatever it took.

The Northern Suppression of the South?

The history of this nation and it's policies are more bloody then they are benevolent.

[ampat]

And the Secretary General of the UN, Koffi Annan; an African, sits on his thumbs, staring at the nobel peace prize he won in 2001 for doing next to nothing.

[ampat]

Almost right. Not just moved out of America, but moved to Zimbabwe.

[Go Gordon]

We're going to destroy Hussein, ostensibly because he might kill hundreds of thousands of people...yet we don't even raise an eyebrow when that happens in actual fact somewhere else. And many here still maintain there is nothing wrong with US foreign policy?

I don't know, maybe its because Sadaam's potential victims could be US citizens (you know - you, me, your mother/wife/daughter). Therefore, the US is going to act pre-emptively.

[Go Gordon]

You can bet that if Zimbabwe had a vast oil supply, Bush, et.al. would be beating the war drums for action against Mugabe and his terrorists.

Whats your point? That since oil isn't involved, then its not a US national security issue? And, therefore, we have no interest in how another country treats its people, and its really none of our business?

[headsonpikes]

Bumping your excellent post #40.(with a bit of a sneer) ;^)

[Le-Roy]

Other folks, better than I, have made the case. If anyone launched the couple of ICBMs they might have, we would know instantly, and that country would be a smoking hole. If bio-agents were released, or a dirty-bomb smuggled in and set off, once we knew where it came from, and who was involved, we would similarly retaliate. There is no one on the planet that can do more than kill a few million in the US, at most...while they would be certain of their own destruction.

You can not make the world 'safe' from violence by initiating violence - ever...it is a logical contradiction; and I, for one, am not willing that the country I call my home have leaders stupid enough to try.

[Roscoe]

initiating massive death and destruction upon thousands of people simply because one of them disagrees with your opinion.

Is that what you America haters think we do?

[smokegenerator]

rodney king style-discrimination suit...NAACP is involved in this one.

[annalex]

Good.

We can't and shouldn't fix every problem in Africa. However, there are problems in Africa of our own making, and they are -- not colonialism, but the retreat from colonialism.

When the white man dropped the burden, many innocent lives were crushed underneath.

[Le-Roy]

I wouldn't know what 'America-haters' think. What I described is what the administration's objective re: Iraq boils down to. They have so far offered no proof that Hussein has done anything...but they intend to attack, and wipe out thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens, because they're afraid of what he might do (i.e., they know his opinions do not agree with theirs).

I love what America is supposed to be, what it can be - not what idiot control-freaks like you have done to it.

[Go Gordon]

There is no one on the planet that can do more than kill a few million in the US, at most...while they would be certain of their own destruction. You can not make the world 'safe' from violence by initiating violence - ever...it is a logical contradiction; and I, for one, am not willing that the country I call my home have leaders stupid enough to try.

Thank the lord we don't have a pantie-waste like you in charge of this country. However, its very magnanomous of you to sacrifice a few million Americans, not to mention ruin the quality of life for the other 300 million Americans before you'd act. Better make sure someone does enough damage to the US so we can have the support of our allies when we retaliate.

Oh BTW, did you ever think that when Sadaam's doctors tell him he's got cancer and has 6 months to live, do you really think he'll care about Iraq'a destruction. I think not. He's bent on destroying the US. And while you'd wait and destroy Iraq, making it the world's largest parking lot after the US takes a devastating hit, you'd be killing all the innocent Iraq's in the process. Pretty good plan Leroy. A regime change, by use of force, at least gives the freedom-hungry, liberty-starved people of Iraq the chance to start over. Unfortunately, your plan wouldn't allow that.

[Roscoe]

1. Better yet, why don't we try minding our own damn business across the board?

2. What I described is what the administration's objective re: Iraq boils down to.

Losing track of your own spinning?