The Invasion of Los Angeles

Evidence? Have you been to San Francisco's Mission District? Trash on the ground, filthy, rats on the street, people on the street corners at all hours, loud marriachi music blaring all the time....it looks just like places in Mexico or the 3rd world. It's despicable.

I invite you to look at a conservative website run by the hotels in SF www.wewantchange.com.

I'm not the only San Franciscan really upset at the 3rd worlding of this city.

And btw, my family has lived in Los Angeles (where you are from) for over 100 years. It's changed for the WORSE and it's disgusting.

It is amazing how different pairs of eyes can see the same thing and come to such different conclusions. The Hispanic neighborhoods I see are well maintained. And that doesn't count all the places which are mixed, because Hispanics and Anglos, particularly middle class ones, seem able to mix well together. Hispanics are by no means confined to ghettos. That has been my experience.

Check the website I directed you to.

And, as a person who grew up in Los Angeles, I really don't know what you are talking about. Also, my father was born there and my grandmother came there (from Chicago), my great grandmother lived there since she was a teen...

The hispanic neighborhoods are well kept? Like where? San Fernando, near that high school there? You've got to be joking...

The website is closed to me. Check out Highland Park, Baja Silverlake, Eagle Rock, West Covina, and Echo Park, and get back to me. Indeed, check out even East LA. None of those places are "disgusting" IMO. Granted Pico Union is (or was). But that is about the bottom of the barrel.

My policy is to never hit the abuse button when I am flamed. I just exit. I have hit the button a couple of times when a post not directed to me is way out there, but that is it. The approach works like a charm.

Knock off the personal attacks.

I know that it was not you. I was addressing Cultural Jihad. I pinged you to be a witness had anything gotten misinterpreted.

Thanks Torie, I know I get overwrought and full of myself on these threads, but I feel a profound injury and insult when I observe Americans who don't seem to intuitively understand and appreciate the intimate connection that America has always had with her immigrants and refugees from the worlds inhumantiy and oppression. It's basic to this place.

Our new Americans, going forward, are going to look different than us. They'll speak too fast, play strange sports and cook strangely odored food. They will be black, Asian and Hispanic. That's our destiny, it's going forward and ain't nobody stopping this train! Our responsibility, as is tasked every outgoing senior class, isto ensure that the incoming freshmen understand and embrace the beautiful culture of freedom, and respect the rules and traditions that have always made this place hum like a dynamo.

Who knows, in 100 years Caucasians could be a 20% minority here. As long as the American culture endures, this party will be rockin', don't bother knockin'!

I'm just glad I didn't have to post the poem from the Statue of Liberty plaque in a grandiose hot dog moment!!! ;^)

Are you actually anti-immigration, or anti-Illegals?

Hmm. Well, that's a good question, deserving of a well thought out answer. The only problem is, my thinking isn't as clear on this as it might be. Here's why...

Am I anti-illegal? Sure...and yet...there are issues.

But anti-immigration...well, it depends. There are some really first rate people out there, and the US is richer (monetarily, intellectually, and so forth) for their presence. As an example, there are some Chinese and Indians that are nothing short of brilliant; I'd much rather have them on our side than some other. The same applies to some Russian scientists out there.

On the other hand, let's say we've got some 38 year old optical engineer that used to work for WorldCom who's out of a job and can't get one because of immigration. A current citizen is worse off because of it. Is it better for society to choose the best and brightest from anywhere available and the Devil take the hindmost, or is there an advantage to restricting immigration as a protection for current citizens? I (frankly) don't know...I'm not sure anyone knows, although most have strong opinions on the subject.

A case can be made in favor of immigration due to increased economic activity - more customers for goods and services spending more money, more tax revenue, a greater market place, and more providers of good and services. But, on the other hand...Sabertooth, have you gone to a park or other scenic area lately? Say what you will, they're packed with people. How I yearn for a bit of solitude! But it's not to be had. Did you know that Mexico city has a population greater than 20,000,000 people? San Antonio (where I live) is only a single million. I don't want to live in a city of 20,000,000 people...so, that's a vote against immigration.

And now we come back to illegal immigration again. Yes, I said I was against it. But there's a young man I know that will surely be a millionaire by the time he's 40. He has his own business, and is always working to come up with new ideas, new ventures. We as a country are lucky to have him, IMO. But his father was illegal...he came here with the dream of owning a house and a car. He worked as a busboy in a cheap restaurant for years, and he accomplished his goals. So, one might even argue that he has made a positive contribution...

What does it boil down to? I'm tired of seeing my tax money used to pay for goodies for immigrants of any variety. I'm really, really tired of seeing the present culture changed so as not to offend immigrants of any variety. If they want a better life, let them build it in their own country instead of coming over here and transforming a pretty good place into something not nearly so pleasant. And I am tired beyond words of people jumping up and down and screaming "racist" about EVERYTHING. I begin to wonder whether one can blink one's eyes without the omnipresent accusation being pressed.

And then we come to the issue of illegal Mexican immigration. On the one hand, our hospitals, schools, and other services are being overwhelmed by the influx. The border area is changing in notable ways. Cross-border crime is a developing and ongoing issue. And yet...and yet. The average Mexican is a decent, hard-working, family oriented person. And their culture is far more to my liking than is the islamic culture being imported from the Middle East. So I sometimes think that illegal immigration from Mexico may well be an offset to something infinitely worse. Yes, I know that moslem missionaries are at work in Mexico...and that's something that concerns me.

I guess I'm not wise enough to know the answer. Hopefully someone (a FReeper, perhaps?) is.

That's a long answer, but a truthful one.

Kindest regards,

N.

Isn't San Antonio run by Hispanics? Is it a poor, trashed, corrupt, third world place?

Some parts of it are. And some aren't. You'll find Hispanics in some really awful slums that look just like the third world...and you'll find some living in the most exclusive and expensive neighborhoods.

San Antonio does have some issues, including a relatively high drop-out rate, a relatively low wage base, and a general lack of a highly skilled workforce.

Much of our workforce is in low paying tourist industry type jobs. Some hotels have brought in workers from the Caribbean, and provide them with lodging, because they believe them to be more dependable workers than our local citizens.

In terms of population, San Antonio is a major city. Economically, we remain a backwater. Why that is, I couldn't say...

And that doesn't count all the places which are mixed, because Hispanics and Anglos, particularly middle class ones, seem able to mix well together.

I have a troubling hunch that racial conflict will become our number one social issue in 5-10 years. Between African Americans and Hispanics from Latin Armeica. It's thick as a brick in my experience. I've never met an immigrant Latino or young male naturalized Hispanic guy from Puerto Rico or the Dominican - and espcially El Salvador, Honduras and Colombia - who has anything but a passionate contempt for our Black countrymates. It's been a bit of a mystery to me, but there's a real cultural dissonance there. I really don't know if this a general protocol in all Hispanic cultures, but I do know that several guys I hung with demanded that when they'd encounter unfamiliar men, that they be afforded an assumption of respect and dignity. They were very attuned to gestures and signals that showed that they were regarded as equals. It's as subtle as just a respectful look into their eyes, but it's an imperative affirmation to most of the Hispanic guys I've known.

I don't think they were satisfied at ALL with the effort or attitude of the urban male Black residents they've met. I've seen some real ugliness when I was younger, and I sense there's a tension that's tangible, fragile and is going to be tested as more Hispanic immigrants move into Northern urban areas. The Latino guys just seem to go hard when a Black guy enters the scene. There's a real animus at work. I hope I'm wrong, and maybe I just hung with the wrong group of roughnecks. They were fun as can be, though. I stayed on their good side, and split the scene whenever my four Salvadoran friends (all sporting bullet wound scars from the Civil War of 79-82) decided to go "clubbing". No thanks. They did some brawling, and they didn't lose many fights. Like, none.

Of course Mexicans are the dominant group. Are your comments confined to the countries you mentioned, or more generalized? It would be odd if you "run with" as it were folks from the countries you mentioned, and not Mexicans. What part of the country would that be plausible?

I might add that Salvadoreans seem to be more violent than Mexicans. At least that is my vague recall. Hondurans vote almost as Republican as Cubans. Go figure.

"In 1993, the INS apprehended 55 Mexican workers at the 1,400 employee Monfort pork processing plant in Worthington, Minnesota. In Albert Lea, Minnesota, city officials were not sure that they wanted a meat packing plant employing 700 that was closed for a year... "

You've already got 'em.

Like Torie, I also have enjoyed your comments on this thread. You are able to present your side of the argument in a good-natured way. Thank you.

I also think that the Hispanics have much to offer this nation, and I particularly liked your analogy of the outgoing senior class and the incoming freshmen.