Autism is Linked to Child's Vaccines

http://www.vaccineclassaction.com/ ^ | Aug.21

[Incorrigible]

The notion about MMR injections and Autism came about after a British researcher in the Royal Academy of Medicine published a paper a few years ago drawing a correlation to the widespread use of the MMR vaccine and the incidence of Autism in the UK.

Now three other researchers at the same institute published an article disputing his findings.  He continues to persist in his own research.  This peer review is all well and good.  And this is why I also say that it's a worthwhile research to pursue and rebuke as necessary.  This is the scientific process.

I'd post some links on this but I'm inundated with work.

The trouble of course comes about when lawyers get involved.  There is a huge class action lawsuit in the UK over the MMR injection.  The National Health there does not provide the alternate of getting each of the vaccinations separately.  Whether this lawsuit leads to better analysis or just makes this more confused remains to be seen.  Finding out about Ford Pinto gas tanks was an example of good legal legwork.  However, the cases based on junk science are too numerous to mention.

I'm on the side that rejects the link between Autism and vaccinations.  However, I'm willing to listen to reasonable arguments to the contrary.  I'm also on the side of caution which is why I recommend the vaccination schedule be pushed back by 6 months to a year and why I applaud the pharmaceutical industry's decision to remove Thimerosal.

It's hard for a parent to watch their child live in their own world and deal with the crushing blow to the hopes and dreams they had for their child.  As I noted, why wife is a chemist and is quite logical most of the time.  But when it comes to this issue, even she gets emotional and looks for some bogey man to pin the blame on.  It may be too late for my son but I hope there a cause and cure for Autism is found somehow.

Regards.

[afraidfortherepublic]

it is also important to remember that the vaccines have substantially reduced or virtually eliminated the risk of many diseases that were literally feared 30-40 years ago.

First of all, let me point out that I am not very far removed from "those years" and we weren't quivering in fear over these diseases. The children were vaccivated One Shot at a Time! Not inundated with triple and quadruple doses. That is all anyone is asking. Space the shots!

As far as German Measles is concerned -- it is the moms you need to worry about. You could produce the same effect by vaccinating high schoolers or kids in elementary school, rather than small children. Or just women, since the deleterious effects are produced in the womb.

[TomB]

I'd post some links on this but I'm inundated with work.

Don't bother, I'm well aware of Wakefield's research. If you search my name, you'll find we've chewed over this subject on two recent threads.

[Kozak]

The human immune system is actually set up to learn by getting infections and combatting them. It is exquisitely tuned.

Unfortunately the "leaning curve" is quite steep, with many of those natural exposures leading to severe illness, disability or death.

[equus]

Not sure what is funny.
Keep watching this field--the research has been going on at NIH for a while--do a medline search on it if you want. NY Times reported on phage research a few years ago.

[aruanan]

Why else would there be so many cases popping up now, he said.

Changing definitions. Broadened categories. Certain conditions that were formerly considered one thing are now considered something else. It's another example of the lumper/splitter approach to species definition. The lumpers' approach would increase the number of life-forms in a particular species. The splitters' approach would increase the number of species in a particular genus.

[aruanan]

Before the FDA recommended that Thimerosal be removed from all vaccines, American children had received 237 micrograms of mercury through vaccines alone by age two. This far exceeds current EPA ‘safe’ levels for mercury which are (one tenth) 0.1 mcg/kg. per day. On the date of birth children received 12 mcg's of mercury from the Thimerosal content in the hepatitis B vaccine which is over 30 times the safe level. The DTaP and HiB vaccines contained over 50 mcg of mercury, which is 60 times greater than the safe level. At six months the second Hep B and Polio vaccines are given, containing 62.5 mcg of mercury which is 78 times greater than safe level.

These "safe" levels are decided in such a way that one can go considerably past them into the "non-safe" side without ill-effects. They are also designed to describe average intake over time, not acute doses. The problem with the above paragraph is the math. A two-year-old at the 50% percentile weighs a little less than 15 kilograms. If a child is 3 kg at birth, his average weight over two years is about 5kg. The "safe" dose is 0.1 ug/day/kg body weight. So, for two years the "safe" maximum dose is 0.1 ug X 365 days X 2 years X 5kg = 365 ug. 237 ug is WAY less than 365 ug, the "safe" cumulative dose. Given that it is more than 33% less than the "safe" dose by two years of age and that the "safe" dose is calculated with extra margins of safety, the dose received by an average 2-year-old is nothing to be worried about.

The brou-ha-ha is similar to that of acrylamide in French fries. The amount is said to be far in excess of the "safe" allowable amount for drinking water. The problem is that a. acrylamide has never been shown to cause cancer in humans and b. "safe" has been set so low that in order to consume in French fries the amount of acrylamide/unit of body weight needed to cause cancer in lab animals a person would have to eat 182 pounds of French fries every day for life.

The reason for the recommendation for eliminating the mercury from the vaccines is not a demonstrated safety issue but the perception of a safety issue. Those who foment the agitation over the "safety" issue in their attempt to dissuade people from vaccine use then seize upon this and say, "They're recommending that all the mercury be removed. See, we TOLD you it was dangerous. Now, if they'd just be honest with you about the vaccinations themselves, we'd all be all right. Don't get your kids vaccinated."

The lack of thought and the amount of shoddy thinking and outright deception among the anti-vaccine crowd is pathetic.

[Al B.]

The reason for the recommendation for eliminating the mercury from the vaccines is not a demonstrated safety issue but the perception of a safety issue. Those who foment the agitation over the "safety" issue in their attempt to dissuade people from vaccine use then seize upon this and say, "They're recommending that all the mercury be removed. See, we TOLD you it was dangerous. Now, if they'd just be honest with you about the vaccinations themselves, we'd all be all right. Don't get your kids vaccinated."

The lack of thought and the amount of shoddy thinking and outright deception among the anti-vaccine crowd is pathetic.

Dr. Walter Spitzer on vaccine safety (from the April, 2002 hearings):

I would just like to allude to this, Mr. Chairman. I have been looking for 17 months for studies with scientific admissibility that are adequate pharmacological-epidemiologic evidence of safety, which you would need when a concern has arisen in the community about safety of a particular drug. I have not found any. I have not found it. A proper study of safety under the current conditions, given the frequency of the disorder, would require about 450,000 children.  I went through that with statisticians at Cambridge. And that has never been done.

And the ``safety studies'' published are of scores of patients. That is a type of sample size which is simply inappropriate, insufficient, and not a scientific way to look at the safety of a drug. I am astonished that the authorities in the United Kingdom, the United States, and my country of Canada are not requiring it the same way they have required us to do it for all contraceptives, for the right reasons.

[Once again, the emphasis is mine.]

A note on Dr. Spitzer:  Walter Spitzer is a well-known epidemiologist, Emeritus Professor of Epidemiology at McGill and Clinical Professor of Medicine at Stanford.  He is a late-comer to the debate on MMR and autism.  As he has stated in his congressional testimony and in his scholarly work, he has no vested interest in the debate.  He has no family members with autism, nor any connection with pharmaceutical companies, nor any body of work in this area to protect.

[Al B.]

Correction, Dr. Spitzer's comments on vaccine safety were from the April, 2001 hearings.

[TomB]

MMR and autism

I thought we were talking about MERCURY and autism?

I find it amazing hiw easily you people can switch between the two.

[Al B.]

I find it amazing hiw easily you people can switch between the two.

LOL. You ARE consistent.

Dr. Spitzer got involved with the debate because of the MMR issue. His comments were about the general issue of vaccine safety.

[TomB]

Dr. Spitzer got involved with the debate because of the MMR issue. His comments were about the general issue of vaccine safety.

Then why does your post say this?

He is a late-comer to the debate on MMR and autism.

At least one of us is consistent.

[bonesmccoy]

Do not quote Comvax indications to me. I am well aware of the indications for use of Comvax. Merck is very clear in the indications and use of their vaccine and every family practitioner and pediatrician is well aware of those indications.

You are incorrect regarding thimerosal in the Hepatitis B vaccine. There is NO mercury and no thimerosal in any HepB vaccine on the market. You're simply incorrect. The vaccines were removed with much fanfare over two years ago.

Keep up your tin hat though... it's real attractive (/smirk)

[bonesmccoy]

What credentials do you have to even evaluate this quotation?

There is simply no epidemic and no exponential rise.

The fact is that there is an increase, but most major institutions feel that it is related to better identification of children.

More importantly, children with autism in California are offered special gov't subsidies and gov't financed healthcare permanently. If a parent has a child in California who is diagnosed with autism, there is no longer any imperative to really diagnose the child. Autism is a poor diagnosis when there is failure to run the appropriate tests to identify the myriad of other conditions that mimic the disease.

Fortunately, most major pediatric centers are very thorough with their metabolic, neurologic, and endocrine evaluations.

I know one thing is for sure. Unless you are well experienced in the differential diagnosis of neurologic, metabolic, genetic, endocrine, and developmental pediatric disorders; you are totally unqualified to render these assumptions and decisions.

If you begin to render opinion on actual cases through this website, you should be cautious because you are stepping on the state laws on medical practice and on the federal laws on communication (FCC regulations).

[webstersII]

If you begin to render opinion on actual cases through this website, you should be cautious because you are stepping on the state laws on medical practice and on the federal laws on communication (FCC regulations).

Why don't you get off your high horse? People around here think it's appropriate to discuss issues that affect them personally and are in daily discussion in newspapers and in the U.S. congress. They are quoting experts giving congressional testimony, which is certainly as valid as anything you have to say. The First Amendment is still in effect, even though you seem to not approve of it.

[Al B.]

If you begin to render opinion on actual cases through this website, you should be cautious because you are stepping on the state laws on medical practice and on the federal laws on communication (FCC regulations).

These kinds of implied threats and attempts at intimidation are getting old. 

You did it here:

You are engaging in interstate commerce and you are engaging in unethical practices due to violation of the code of state regulations for any state having any reader of this thread.

And here:

However, these incessant postings regarding vaccines are bordering on illegal conduct.........

Free Republic and other anti-vaccination websites are also guilty of such culpability if harm occurs to a child due to alleged negligence by said website, medical group, etc.............

Let this be a frank warning to Freepers. These discussions expose Free Republic to malpractice culpability and they should be discontinued because the individuals starting the discussions apparently do not have credentials as physicians in each state of the country.

If you think you're going to intimidate me from posting on this, think again.  I haven't even gotten started posting on this subject.

[Incorrigible]

Sheesh Bones.

No wonder Mr. Spock would wonder about humanity with outbursts like yours!

 

There are many professionals both medical and educational who claim that the growth in Autism goes beyond better diagnosis.  I don't know your credentials but I don't see you pointing to specific links to back up your statements like the other people here are.

Yes there are quacks out there taking advantage of parents in a vulnerable state but there is room for disagreement over these issues.

Disagreement leads to understanding.  I don't know why you're so intent on shutting it down.

It's not just California that provides funding for special education.  The federal education law mandates it in all states.  Now, I can tell you from personal experience that getting the appropriate education for my son is like pulling teeth.  It's all local control at the school district level.  If California is simply giving money away, which I doubt, perhaps I should consider moving from New Jersey.

You make a good point with regard to high functioning kids being provided with an over abundance of resources.  Perhaps this is my bias showing since my son is low functioning and I know how that the competition for resources is fierce.

My son has been poked, prodded, scrutinized and analyzed beyond what I consider tolerable.  It has been necessary to convince the powers that be that he's Autistic even when it's plainly obvious.  I have not found the other way around to be true at all.

You need to spend a little more time on Omicron Ceti III.

[Incorrigible]

For anyone interested in learning more about Autism and how you can participate in walk-a-thons and other fund raising events, please follow the links below:

	Feat.Org
Autism Society of America	(Yes I know he supports Hillary, Ugh)	Autism National Committee

[dd5339]

Thank you for your post and showing that I am not a paranoid manian as bonesmcoy would have everyone believe for not getting my daughter her government mandated vaccinations.

Semper Fi

[afraidfortherepublic]

The vaccines were removed with much fanfare over two years ago.

But not until there was an outcry from parents and others. Since it takes about two years for autism to present itself in the child (and sometimes 4 years to be diagnosed) it is possible that some children receiving Thimerosol have not been diagnosed yet. And were all of the vaccines removed from the stocks of pediatricians, hospitals, health departments? I know that they had a difficult time tracing the source of the batch of vaccine my grandson recieved. Finally it was determined that it did contain thimersorol, but it took a while to determine it.

Of course, we have no way of knowing whether this caused his condition. But we are not taking any chances with his little brother, either.