Remember Ruby Ridge: Ten years later, there are still important lessons.

National Review Online ^ | August 21, 2002 | Timothy Lynch

[Redbob]

"Randy seems to have been bought off, too. He won't say anything about the BATF anymore."

Mr. Weaver never was an "activist", any more than he was a "white separatist para-military".
He lost his wife and a son: Who could blame him for fearing the same things could happen again, when the same folks still work at the FBI, and nobody there was punished in any way?

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Why do you think Weaver was a kook?

Because he was a devout religious man? Or is it because he didn't think the races should intermarry?

I don't agree with the latter but it's not exactly kooky to take the position that interracial relationships take on extra pressure in society and should be avoided.

Let's remember, Weaver never threatened anyone, "never said, come on my land and I'll kill you revenue fellas", and never was given the chance to surrender peacefully.

He was not a member of any hate organization, Aryan Nations or otherwise.

This was simply a Federal Agent's ploy to pressure a man into being a undercover snitch.

They took an honest man who was trying to remain honest and make a buck so he could feed his family.

He wasn't a parolee, drug dealer, convict, or lowlife scum that the feds could roll and nobody should feel bad for them.

He was just a guy in the hills until the Feds came a knockin.

The Feds had all these trained marksmen and hell, why not use your assets?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

No insult meant to Randy Weaver. Just an observation. If I were in his position I would keep an even lower profile.

[Badray]

"I am no disruptor....I have voted straight ticket Republican for 20 years and I don't see that ever changing. "

There is part of your problem. Not every "R" is honorable and deserving of your vote.

"I am just tired of being associated with what I call "Whacked-Out Kooks". Or, anyone who supports the likes of the FREAKS at Waco (David Koresh and his Jim Jones Kool-Aid Drinking Death Cult Members) and Ruby Ridge."

Have you ever heard the statement: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? We advocate freedom on this site (well, some of us), and we are not out to kill those who are different. We are allowed to be KOOKS in this country as long as we do not hurt anyone else. Who was Weaver hurting? Also, this is the first time I've seen Jim Jones lumped in with the others. Jones group killed themselves. Kooks, and delusional for sure, but they killed themselves. It wasn't the government.

"I truely believe that if the dead people in these cases (Or in this case Randy Weaver) would have NOT been "Whacked-Out Kooks", they would be alive today. Therefore, it is THEIR fault that things turned-out badly for them. NOT the big bad mean government."

So if all just conform to little Johnny Shear's standards, we can all live happily ever after? You are the KOOK if you think that this is what this country is all about.

Now, either conform to the idea that it is okay to be different or go somewhere where everyone walks in lockstep. You will not find that here.

[Redbob]

"I'll try to reply to your about me in a sane fassion....
I am just tired of being associated with what I call "Whacked-Out Kooks". Or, anyone who supports the likes of the FREAKS at Waco (David Koresh and his Jim Jones Kool-Aid Drinking Death Cult Members) and Ruby Ridge.
I truely believe that if the dead people in these cases would have NOT been "Whacked-Out Kooks", they would be alive today. Therefore, it is THEIR fault that things turned-out badly for them. NOT the big bad mean government."

Sorry, Johnny, but if that's the best attempt you can make at a "sane" reply, you'd better give up.

I'm sure the Dimocrats have got a site where you'd be much happier. Or you could sit and wait for the UFO to come take you away...
In the meantime, you could see if you can find a book on grammar and spelling, and while away a few peaceful hours with it.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Remember, the Govt. would never railroad a guy.

NEVER.

They wouldn't put a guy out in public and say he bombed civilians at the Olympic Games when he was just a fast acting security guard.

They wouldn't try and blame an explosion in the 16 inch gun turret of the USS IOWA on a suicidal homosexual gunnersmate.

And they surely wouldn't set up an honest man for gun a charge so they could go after Aryan Nation lunatics.

[Badray]

BTW, I don't think that Weaver of his family were kooks, but I forgot to mention that in my last post. But even if he were, that should not carry a death sentence for his wife and child.

I have two objections to the settlement that he did get. One, it wasn't large enough and two, it should have come from the pockets of the officials that ordered and and agents that carried out the assault and not the taxpayers.

[dd5339]

I seem to remember taking that same oath, "to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

The fact that I remember that 20 some odd years later speaks to the power of that oath.

Semper Fi!

[dd5339]

Wow!

So Randy Weaver and his family were "Whacked out Kooks" for wanting to home school family? After all Randy and Vicky moved to Idaho from Iowa, because Iowa would not allow them to home school. Maybe I ought to ping the home school crowd.

Contrary to your belief Randy Weaver was not a White Supremacist believer. In fact he was distancing himself from that group when the event in question happened.

Semper Fi

[Travis McGee]

Gestapo tactics loving jack boot licker alert!

[Double Tap]

I truely believe that if the dead people in these cases (Or in this case Randy Weaver) would have NOT been "Whacked-Out Kooks", they would be alive today. Therefore, it is THEIR fault that things turned-out badly for them. NOT the big bad mean government.

Yes, entrapment, having your family shot to pieces and your life destroyed is all appropriate if you don't think like Johnny Shear does.

The best response to you is, ESAD troll!

[Ancesthntr]

Re: your # 13 - this sounds like some of the stuff near the end of a rather long John Ross book, wouldn't you say?

[primeval patriot]

You got your fanny kicked up and down this thread.

In fact, several posters took the time to give you a courteous debate.

You responded by shouting even more mindless invective and now you're on this thread doing likewise.

Be a sport and let the adults discuss the article in a civilized fashion.

[Red Jones]

you are a nazi.

[Red Jones]

what you're saying is that people who have odd or as you perceive to be extreme political or religious views, then the government should kill them and the rest of us should cheer; like I said you are a good little nazi.

[Red Jones]

every schoolkid should be taught about what happened at ruby ridge and at waco and should hear the stories about oklahoma city bombing, twa800, etc. we need a revolution. and we all know that when schools teach these things, the jack-booted thugs will come to stop them.

[skeeter]

JS suffers from acute cognitive dissonance. Snaggle toothed, pot-bellied cracker though he undoubtedly is, he has an odd, reflexive need to ingratiate himself with the PC set. Maybe he's trying to escape his own proclivities, I don't know.

All IMO, of course.

[Inspector Harry Callahan]

Thanks for the post. This is a well written article. I'm surprised the statists at the National Review actually published it. Anyway, bttt.

[Mat_Helm]

You obviously are an ignorant and narrow minded individual with little knowledge of the actual events to slander the article, writer, and National Review. If you had watched any of the Congresional proceedings and committee hearings about the truth of events you would not be making such inflamitory remarks.

I watched even the most liberal senators and congressman dismay over the actions of the FBI and how they acted and covered up unconstitutional events for acts of a few loose canons that should be in jail today. Congress apaologized to Randy Weaver and his family for what the FBI did to him and his family. They chastised him for failing to work with the county court and sherrif to resolve the issue through the normal legal channals for the entrapment issue on the shotgun with BATF. But remember his mindset as an innocent man being targeted by illegal activity to begin with by the U.S. Government represenatives who started the mess. So why should he trust other governement people that may be in on the whole system out to jail an innocent man? He was faulted for not playing along with government in hopes that somewhere along the line honest government people would put an end to the activity of the corrupt ones. Look at the results as this article points out! Weaver was right all along as the corrupt government officiols and the shooter Horiouchi are still free men even though they broke the law more agregiously than what he was falsely accused of. The powerful have protected themselves and even Congress did not follow through on correcting and going after the bad people that caused this travesty.

[Redbob]

"The govt./prosecutors have a different defenition of length than the avg. person. They open the top break on the shotgun and and now that the shotgun is shaped like this ^ they measure from the butt to the end of the barrel.
The distance is now shorter and illegal."

Sorry, you're wrong. Barrel length (min. 18" for shotguns) and overall length (min. 26") are measured in the "assembled" condition, not folded!