Posted on 08/19/2002 11:53:25 AM PDT by USA21
I am not sure of the heights and ages of those who congregated in the lots nor whether they were conceived out of wedlock, but I am sure that they robbed and vandalized the stores, intimidated shoppers, and that their lawlessness and unruly behavior resulted in the closing of almost every shop in that mall. Armed policemen may have made them think twice about their criminal intentions as compared to the feckless private security personnel that were hired.
To make the illogical assumption that I was advocating shooting them indicates your superficial reading of my post and a grave misunderstanding of the role of the police as protectors of the good and law-abiding individuals in our society.
The kid could have just been in the bathroom for all we know.
Regardless the police department will be settling lawsuits for years.
That being said, it looks like the Houston raid was a major screw-up:
and, as usual, the "good twin" is totally left out. My bad sister gets everything. I hate her.
HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT
FILMSTRIP SERIES #127/AB-4
NARRATOR: The key to successfully promoting one's point of view in any debate is ridicule. By successfully ridiculing the point of view of one's opponent, one may cause the reader of such a discussion to come to accept your own position by default.
One way to do this is by the fanciful exaggeration of the opponent's position. In this case, the fanciful exaggeration is cleverly employed as part of a false dichotomy - a twofer! The words "armed guards" have been employed by your opponent - how to respond?
Simple! Just extend and exaggerate that position to some ridiculous extreme, and then tar your opponent with that brush! Make it sound as though your opponent advocates shooting teens on sight - this has the effect of ridiculing your opponent, and attempts to force him into an extreme position by denying the existence of any middle ground. Imply that either teens must be permitted to act in any criminal manner they see fit, or they must be shot down in the streets like wild dogs.
Be sure to practice this technique - the key to successful use of this tactic is practice, practice, practice! And next time, we'll explore the techniques of the simple ad hominem attack - how to label your opponent in such a way as to make people stop listening to him. 'Till then, bye for now!
Around and below this, figures fall into Hell and at the bottom, damaged now but detectable, is a devil (with a tail) pushing a wheelbarrow loaded with at least one and probably more figures. I think there is another prancing devil, possibly blowing a horn, above the wheelbarrow, but these small details are hard to see. This is, evidently, someone literally going to Hell in a handcart ...
There's two sides to this story and I have a feeling the adults have a more credible one.
from The "adults" side of the story:
Houston Police Chief C.O. Bradford ordered an investigation Monday into the weekend arrests of hundreds of people gathered peacefully at a westside parking lot by police who were assigned to stop illegal drag racing.
"I couldn't believe we were being told to arrest all those kids. It was just utterly, utterly senseless,"
42 juveniles who were cited for violation of the city's midnight curfew. Thirty of the juveniles also were charged with criminal trespass.
What about the couple hundred others? What were they charged with???
This was a massive screw on the part of the cops, and some of them are big enough to admit it.
You don't arrest everybody in sight in the parking lot of a business during business hours. Some (many) of those arrested will be wrongly arrested.
Officers say Kmart bust was flubbed
Houston Police Chief C.O. Bradford ordered an investigation Monday into the weekend arrests of hundreds of people gathered peacefully at a westside parking lot by police who were assigned to stop illegal drag racing.
Officers on the scene called the arrests "utterly, utterly senseless" on Monday, and said the captain in charge, Mark Aguirre, ordered them to round up everyone who was outside the 24-hour Kmart Super Center or eating at the Sonic Drive-In next door.
The operation had been weeks in planning and involved dozens of officers. But officers involved said that when no drag racers were found, they were ordered to arrest the 278 people there.
Police on Sunday said 425 people were arrested, but Monday revised the count. Most were charged with criminal trespass.
"I couldn't believe we were being told to arrest all those kids. It was just utterly, utterly senseless," said one officer involved, who violated department policy by discussing the arrests and spoke on condition of anonymity.
"Captain Aguirre was put in charge, and it went to hell in a handbasket," said a police supervisor who was at the scene, also violating department policy and requesting anonymity.
Also taken into custody were 42 juveniles who were cited for violation of the city's midnight curfew. Thirty of the juveniles also were charged with criminal trespass.
Bradford issued a statement late Monday saying he had begun an inquiry into the arrests, including who was in charge and what instructions were given to the officers.
Two police supervisors said Monday that Aguirre, captain of the South Central Patrol Division, had taken over the operation after a dispute with the assigned leader at a staff meeting. Both blamed Aguirre.
"That operation had been planned for weeks," one of the supervisors said. "It was not planned with the intent to arrest everyone in sight. It was to arrest drag racers."
Both police supervisors said the Sunday operation began under the supervision of Westside Patrol Capt. John Mokwa, in whose area it took place.
But when Aguirre angered Mokwa during a command staff meeting by insisting he knew how the operation should be conducted, he and Mokwa got the permission of an assistant chief for Aguirre to take over, the supervisors said.
Neither Aguirre nor Mokwa returned calls Monday.
The supervisors said the operation was part of a series of recent police efforts to stop illegal drag racing.
During a June 15 raid, police found more than 300 cars gathered in the 7100 block of Business Park Drive, where eight people were arrested for reckless driving and three for public intoxication. Police also issued 32 traffic tickets and cited 16 juveniles for breaking the city's curfew.
On June 22, another raid in the 7000 block of Westheimer to Texas 6 netted five arrests for reckless driving and 65 tickets.
Bradford's statement also said he plans to investigate why police arrested the people gathered in the parking lots instead of issuing citations as in the previous operations.
The Sunday raid "was a complete waste of weeks of work and a huge amount of manpower," said one of the supervisors.
"There are all those kids now, who have a criminal record, and don't deserve it," said the other supervisor.
Hundreds of young people gather in the parking lots of the Kmart and adjacent Sonic on weekend nights.
Those businesses and others in the area, as well as nearby residents, have in the past complained about the noise and litter, police said.
Police were interested in the spot's role as a race staging area, where young drivers admire one another's vehicles, then go to other nearby locations to race, said one of the supervisors.
The two supervisors said police had "scout cars" and undercover officers working surveillance at the gathering spot for weeks in preparation for Sunday's raid.
"But we got out there, and no one was racing," said one of the supervisors. "So Aguirre just said, `Arrest them all for trespass.'
"It was like, `Kill them all and let God sort them out,' " said the other supervisor. "I guess we're just lucky he didn't order us to fire warning shots into the crowd or anything."
Both supervisors said many of the people arrested were not in cars. Many were eating food from the Sonic, which was open until 2 a.m., or had been shopping at Kmart.
Monday, Kmart corporate spokeswoman Susan Dennis acknowledged the store has had complaints about the weekend night crowds.
"Our first concern is the safety of our customers and associates," Dennis said. "As for the action taken, that was the police. There was no directive from Kmart."
A woman who answered the phone at the Sonic on Monday said no one there wished to speak to the news media.
HPD's internal affairs division was flooded Monday with people filing complaints over their arrests.
"I was eating ice cream from the Sonic when I was arrested," 19-year-old Emily Demmler said Monday. She and several friends, all of whom were arrested, met at Demmler's house Monday to go file IAD complaints.
An IAD officer said many of those who filed complaints Monday were discussing lawsuits over the incident.
"I don't feel safe anywhere now," Demmler said of the experience. "It was really wrong, what they did."
Many of those arrested Sunday pleaded guilty in order to get out of jail quicker and go about the business of retrieving their cars, all of which were towed away.
Martin DeLeon, an HPD spokesman, said the tow fee is $103 and the storage fee averages about $15 a day, but some auto-storage facilities can charge more.
Ronald Beylotte, chief prosecutor for the city attorney's office, said the cases that are set for trial will probably be scheduled in four to six weeks.
Aguirre has run afoul of department policy many times in his 20 years with HPD.
The most recent, an allegation that Aguirre used foul and threatening language to his subordinates, garnered the captain a written reprimand from Bradford, which was overturned by an arbitrator.
That incident also resulted in an investigation of perjury allegations against Bradford, who testified at Aguirre's hearing that he doesn't use profanity to his subordinates.
Bradford later was contradicted by an assistant chief, who testified that Bradford had once called him a quite profane name
We had a "gut" that we cruised to the point of traffic stoppage here in my home town. The same kind of hangouts etc.. All the police had to do to get us to stop was patrol the area pretty regularly and hand out tickets to those breaking the law. Took about a month to get us off the main drag.
EBUCK
It's the bureaucrats who sent them there who are the primary problem.
Good point.
Or shopping for hair scrunchies at Kmart!
I agree with this statement from another poster. The police action should have begun long before it turned into a mass arrest situation. Just run them off the lot. I worked in a fast food place once that had curb service and we had a problem with loitering late at night. Paying customers were welcome as long as they stayed in their cars. The manager just went outside and told the loiterers to leave and they complied. We didn't have too much trouble after that. The situation at the McDonalds next door was different. It was chaos. Some of the loiterers were McDonalds employees. Eventually the police had to be called to break up fights and to clear the lot.
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