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Intel, PC Makers Sued Over Pentium 4 Performance  
PCWorld.com ^ | Friday, August 16, 2002 | Tom Mainelli

Posted on 08/18/2002 8:35:35 PM PDT by HAL9000

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1 posted on 08/18/2002 8:35:35 PM PDT by HAL9000
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To: HAL9000
From what I have read, most software needs to be recompiled with compilers optimized for the Pentium 4 to see a difference in performance with the Pentium 3.

2 posted on 08/18/2002 8:37:42 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Paleo Conservative
Not so.
3 posted on 08/18/2002 8:42:19 PM PDT by ConsistentLibertarian
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To: Paleo Conservative
AS a PC techie I am laughing my @ss off. I just bought a Pentium 4 2.0 Ghz and it completely tears my penium 3 700 apart. In benchmarks I get almost 5 times the performace. This lawsuit will get tossed.
4 posted on 08/18/2002 8:43:29 PM PDT by Jon Geb
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To: ConsistentLibertarian
Sometimes so.
5 posted on 08/18/2002 8:45:13 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: HAL9000
Oboy. Now I gotta excuse to ditch my PIII and buy a P-4. I can get in on the lawsuit!

--Boris

6 posted on 08/18/2002 8:54:47 PM PDT by boris
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To: Jon Geb
" it completely tears my penium 3"

I steadfastly refuse to make off-color jokes about this.

Not from me will you receive dry witticisms about the "3" referring to length, or possibly circumference.

No, I shall remain aloof from the gutter and make no comment whatsoever.

--Boris

7 posted on 08/18/2002 8:58:07 PM PDT by boris
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To: boris
"No, your Honor. I was going to buy the P-4 computer anyway. I didn't know anything about a lawsuit..."

I had the exact thought when I read it...

8 posted on 08/18/2002 8:58:54 PM PDT by Sledge
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To: HAL9000
All the more reason why the industry needs a better rating system. The chip, the board, the amount and type of memory and more are all factors in performance.
9 posted on 08/18/2002 9:12:35 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: Jon Geb
Slow it down to 700 as well and your p!!!700 would beat the pants off the p4 700. That is the point. Intel sold p4 1.3's that were far slower than the p!!!1.0's while claiming the p4's were faster. They also claimed that a p4 1.7 was just as fast as an Athlon 2100+ (1.66 Ghz), a blatant lie. In almost all behchmarks an Athlon 2100+ will beat a p4 2.2Ghz, even though it runs 433 mhz slower. The only advantage a P4 has is RDRam which is memory not the processor. With DDR the P4 is slower in all benchmarks.
10 posted on 08/18/2002 9:12:36 PM PDT by ImphClinton
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To: HAL9000
I have to admit that I have been "underwhelmed" by the performance of my wife's HP Pavilion which has a Pentium 4 @ 1.8 GHz, with a half-Gig of DDR Ram.

However, I am not altogether certain that the perceived lack of performance might not be attributable to the fact that her machine runs Windows XP.

11 posted on 08/18/2002 9:12:53 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: HAL9000
For example, in a recent test of each company's top CPUs, a system with Intel's 2.53-GHz P4 EDGED past a PC with an Athlon XP 2100+ chip (running at 1.73 GHz) in PC WorldBench 4.

So the P4 should have BLOWN by the AMD processor?????? What was/is their advertised speeds? Is one of the points of the article that Intel is fudging a little?????? Confused in Texas.

FGS

12 posted on 08/18/2002 9:13:09 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: HAL9000
What I'd read was that the P4 does not yield as many MIPS per MHz as the P3, but that the design allows for operation at higher clock speeds than the P3's design would allow(*). I would expect also that some instructions execute much better than others; code which is designed for other processors may run much worse on the P4 than code which is written expressly for it.

(*)Scaling up speeds is not as simple as one might think. Although the newer chips have many more transistors in them than older ones, signals actually pass through fewer transistors each clock cycle. Even though an 8088 does much less useful work per clock cycle than a P4, it would probably be difficult if not impossible to engineer a version of the 8088 which didn't use any more transistors but which could go at 100MHz. Such a chip would be less than a 50th as fast as a 2GHZ P4, even if one attached zero-wait-state memory, but getting an 8088 to run that speed would still be just about impossible. If Intel hit the speed limit with their P3 design, then a new design which offered 10% fewer MIPS per MHz but could run at a 50% higher clock rate could be a net improvement. I suspect that's what happened here.

BTW, one advantage of the P4 versus other chips is what happens when the heat sink fails...

13 posted on 08/18/2002 9:18:05 PM PDT by supercat
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To: monkeyshine
All the more reason why the industry needs a better rating system. The chip, the board, the amount and type of memory and more are all factors in performance.

Another issue I've seldom seen considered is that in many cases what really counts is how well the system can perform when it's bogged down and thrashing. If I'm not waiting on my computer, I don't care whether it takes 1ms or 10ms to process my keystrokes. But when it's going into one of it's "big think" times, even a 20% speedup would be welcome.

14 posted on 08/18/2002 9:20:50 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat
BTW, one advantage of the P4 versus other chips is what happens when the heat sink fails...

No joke. Drop the sink on an Athlon and you can get out your checkbook, 'cause that baby's dead and gone...

15 posted on 08/18/2002 9:22:33 PM PDT by general_re
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To: general_re
No joke. Drop the sink on an Athlon and you can get out your checkbook, 'cause that baby's dead and gone...

One of my coworkers trashed one by forgetting to remove the adhesive-backed paper from the heat sink before putting it on the chip. Why they make those chips so touchy I have no idea. [It would seem like the logical thing to do would be to have the chip factory-bonded to a medium-sized piece of metal; heat transfer between the chip and the metal could be better than what's possible with conventional packaging, and heat transfer between the metal and an external heat sink could be better than that between the chip and a heat sink due to the larger surface area of contact. Am I missing anything in my thinking?]

16 posted on 08/18/2002 9:38:57 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat
I just installed an XP yesterday. I almost forgot to remove the plastic "protective cover" covering the pink clay used to buffer the heatsink. But just peeling the "protective cover" off the heatsink removed a lot of that pink clay-like substance.

I put the machine together, and it wouldn't start. I rechecked and double checked every connection. Nothing. I went back to the store and bought a new power supply and a new board. First the supply, then the board. No help. I pulled out the memory and put the memory from another machine. No help. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I checked and replaced almost everything.

I figured the only thing left I hadn't checked was the CPU. So I went back to the store and bought a new CPU. While standing there, thinking about all I've been through, I had another thought. What if the problem is that the button on the case was shorted out? So for good measure I bought a new case, too.

I got home and put the MB into the new case. I pushed the button, and it started up immediately. It was the damn "on" button on the case that was defective.

17 posted on 08/18/2002 10:01:53 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: supercat
It would seem like the logical thing to do would be to have the chip factory-bonded to a medium-sized piece of metal; heat transfer between the chip and the metal could be better than what's possible with conventional packaging, and heat transfer between the metal and an external heat sink could be better than that between the chip and a heat sink due to the larger surface area of contact. Am I missing anything in my thinking?

Thermal expansion comes to mind. The chip carrier is ceramic, and the metal bonded to it will expand or contract at a different rate than the ceramic carrier, so it would probably pop right off just due to the heat stress before too long. Unless you had some sort of mechanical attachment, like bolting it directly to the carrier.

But that would still increase the size and weight of the thing. Aside from purely engineering problems, the reason I suspect they don't do something like that is because it leaves system manufacturers free to find a heat solution that fits their needs - a big block of aluminum works fine in a nice, roomy desktop, but you want something cleverer and more streamlined in a laptop, for example.

Heat dissipation is basically a function of the surface area of the object, so all a heat sink really does is increase the surface area - how it's actually configured really doesn't matter much. So maybe something thin and wide for a laptop or rackmount, versus big and blocky for a desktop. And anything you attach beforehand just increases the size and makes it less attractive to folks with space constraints.

18 posted on 08/18/2002 10:06:14 PM PDT by general_re
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To: monkeyshine
I bought a new Mac the other day. I pushed the button, and it started up immediately.
19 posted on 08/18/2002 10:16:13 PM PDT by HAL9000
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To: monkeyshine
I feel your pain. :-)
20 posted on 08/18/2002 10:34:54 PM PDT by Flashman_at_the_charge
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