The home-schooling revolution: Williams asks parents to take children out of public schools

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Saturday, August 17, 2002 | Kyle Williams

[Jeff Chandler]

Like, how to talk to the tattooed redneck down at the hardware store? Or the tough-talking guy on the garbage truck?

Most people learn how to interact with different people by actually interacting with them, and, contrary to the NEA talking points, the average homeschooling parent doen't keep his kids in a box. The homeschooled kid is quite likely to be accompanying his dad to the hardware store, and would be more likely to actually meet the garbage truck driver. This is natural human interaction. What the education industry means by interacting with diverse people is something different. They don't mean respecting people as individuals, but rather being forced to accept as healthy and normal all sorts of rude and sociopathic behavior among the student population.

What is seldom mentioned in discussions about homeschooling is the fact that same-age segregation is not natural, and is certainly not healthy. Anyone who has dealt with children knows about the chemistry of the herd. Children who congregate in groups are as likely as not to reinforce negative attitudes amongst themselves. Bullying is only one manifestation of this phenomenon. The veritable worship of popular culture is another.

My middle daughter is the first child we homeschooled. She has grown up to be a fine young women with has no social problems. She does have the cultural awareness to discern between healthy and destructive behavior, though, and I think that is really what the educrats are afraid of. Imagine what our society would be like if everyone believed in personal responsibility? Of chastity outside of marriage? In the unique greatness of America? No, they can't have that. Better to slander homeschooling families as wierdo hermits.

[Chemnitz]

I agree with you. Although I would rather see the public system replaced, I know it won't be. It is odd that so many method requirements are set up for teachers and so little is necessary in the way of knowing content. For instance, the Head Start program wanted helpers who were earning a master's in PRE-SCHOOL education. The senior teacher of the program I knew seemed to hate kids. The children survived her, but it made me wonder about how confused requirements can be.

To teach in a community college in Arizona one needs a master's degree and a certification process that includes one 3-credit course. University teaching usually requires a worthwhile doctorate, not 32 hours in education. So there is quite a difference between what we expect for K-12 and college.

[r9etb]

precisely! So why spend 7 to 8 hours locked in a classroom with kids your age when you can be out exploring the real world, including interacting with those both younger and way older than you?

You're treating it like a trip to the zoo. "Hey, kids -- let's go watch the garbage man! Ooooh, look over there! The man at the auto parts counter has a tattoo!"

Speaking personally, I learned a hell of a lot more about human nature by being "locked in a room" with kids spanning the gamut of social position, than I could ever have learned by "going to the zoo."

And that "wasted 7 or 8 hours" stuff only flies if the teachers are no good.

Am I condemning homeschoolers? Absolutely not. But it's foolish to pretend that there is no value in the sort of social interactions that kids get in a classroom, in a school.

[Jeff Chandler]

I appreciate the reasoned nature of your arguement, but after this "Public schools, like the army" I disregarded everything else that followed in the paragraph

The purpose of education is entirely different from the purpose of boot camp.

Education is meant to enable the individual to reach his potential- to become the best person he can be. Boot camp is meant to develop a group men into a cohesive unit.

[TxBec]

That's what I was trying to say in #61 and #63. You said it so much better : )

[Alan Chapman]

I'm not saying that parents shouldn't exert some control -- it'd be irresponsible not to. However, parents should not control all of their kids' interactions, because outside of communes and tyrannies real life doesn't work that way. One has to deal with all kinds of people, and it's not something one picks up easily upon leaving home. Kids have to learn to deal with people early on. In the end, it's a delicate balance of freedom and protection.

So, what is it that you're proposing?

All too often they end up as ninnies. There's a reason that "momma's boy" is (or was) considered to be an insult.

Well, I'm sure if somebody tried hard enough one could pretty much level any charge against the way children are brought up. But, that is a matter for the family to deal with, not society.

[TxBec]

Um...I'm not treating it as anything. You are the one who picked those examples. I merely meant that if you had picked those examples as people that children have to learn to deal with, homeschoolers have more experience as they are out in the real world more than those in PS.

[agrace]

Even after the successes of homeschooling, the National Education Association still continues to raise the issue of socialization. You would think, by now, we would be past this fundamental issue. Yet, homeschooling is not just about results, test scores and the future business success of a student, but the time spent the way it should be – with families living their daytime hours together.

Amen! Socialization as an argument is such a joke. You mean my five year old misses out on a really good opportunity to grow an attitude? Oh what a shame. And there are so many homeschool group activities that it's a wonder anyone considers this a valid concern at all anymore.

[r9etb]

First: This is America, and it's nobody's business how parents choose to socialize their kids

True. But parents should recognize that there is value in socializing day after day with people who are different, and that there is a price in removing their children from it.

In bygone days, it was not uncommon for kids in rural areas to grow up having never met anyone of a different race, religion or economic "class."

I believe they were called country bumpkins or rubes, who (when visiting cities) were often noted for their difficulty of interaction with people who were different.

It's presumptious to make the blanket statement that homeschoolers are never exposed to "others" who "aren't like them." Where's the data or evidence supporting this opinion?

I didn't make that blanket statement. I simply noted that it is not uncommon, based on personal observation, for homeschool parents to be overprotective, to the detriment of their kids (sons, more often). And the tendency to over-protect seems often to be concentrated on the people who home-school for religious reasons. It's not a blanket statement -- but from what I've seen it's true more often than not.

You seem to be saying, BTW, that there's no value in the "socialization" that a classroom environment can provide. That's simply false.

Please note that I'm not using this as an argument against home-schooling per se. I'm simply stating that pulling a kid out of the class-room is not without cost. (And heaven help the poor kid whose home-school parent is incompetent -- such situations do occur.)

[don-o]

My 12 year old son made a 97th percintile nationally normed, off the first statem mandated test we were forced to take.

I think he told us that the questions he missed were unclear

[Jeff Chandler]

But it's foolish to pretend that there is no value in the sort of social interactions that kids get in a classroom, in a school.

While there is some merit to this arguement, the negative values(leftist indoctrination) of the public school far outways positive value of the diversity experience.

[Jeff Chandler]

outways = outweighs

[Harrison Bergeron]

"You seem to be saying, BTW, that there's no value in the "socialization" that a classroom environment can provide. "

You, OTOH, seem to be saying that classroom "socialization" is the only means of exposing children to the world around them. Of course I know better than to throw such assumptions and generalizations into an argument.

[r9etb]

The homeschooled kid is quite likely to be accompanying his dad to the hardware store, and would be more likely to actually meet the garbage truck driver.

It's a trip to the zoo, in other words. But a public school kid will probably know more about how a hardware guy or garbage man thinks, because he has dealt with with the guy's kids every day, and has seen and interacted with him socially at school functions or birthday parties. That's more knowledge than any number of trips to the garbage can or hardware store could ever provide.

It's an important kind of knowledge -- it's served me very well on any number of occasions.

Can a kid survive without it? Sure. That's why it's not a conclusive argument against home-schooling, and it's certainly not a good reason to keep kids in a bad public school.

But please let's not pretend that there's no cost to keeping your kids away from that sort of socialization.

[Jeff Chandler]

I believe they were called country bumpkins or rubes, who (when visiting cities) were often noted for their difficulty of interaction with people who were different.

This image is the stuff of TV sitcoms. Do I detect a bit of bigotry against rural Americans?

[r9etb]

but after this "Public schools, like the army" I disregarded everything else that followed in the paragraph

So basically you feel compelled to argue from ignorance? Perhaps you can read and consider what I was saying, and then we can talk.

[Harrison Bergeron]

HS'ers aren't alone in having to constantly deflect this silly "socialization" thingy. I continue to be utterly bumfuzzled and flabbergasted at the pressure my wife - a stay at home mom - gets from women (even her mother) to put our two year old into daycare. This despite one legitimate study after another saying that kids raised at home are healthier, smarter, better behaved, and, if I don't mind saying so myself, cuter than kids dumped into that cold storage facility called "the daycare center." (OK, the "cuter" part was based on a polling sample consisting of my wife and I, but it's true, I swear! :-))

[r9etb]

You, OTOH, seem to be saying that classroom "socialization" is the only means of exposing children to the world around them.

It's not the only way, of course. But it's a very good way, and a much more reliable way than relying on home-school parents to associate with people other than "people like us." Which quite often they do, because it's human nature to do so.

[Harrison Bergeron]

"The homeschooled kid is quite likely to be accompanying his dad to the hardware store, and would be more likely to actually meet the garbage truck driver."

"It's a trip to the zoo, in other words.

Wow. There's some serious bigotry going on in that response and the crack about the "rubes." To assume that homeschoolers would see a sanitation worker as a zoo specimen... sheesh. You've got a serious problem there.

[Jeff Chandler]

It's a trip to the zoo, in other words.

I certainly don't consider the people I interact with on a day-to-day basis as zoological curiosities, but as unique individuals. I also resent the implication. Our family doesn't restrict our social activities to people of our own socio-economic status. Our friends range from people with Down Syndrome who work in closed shops to physicists, from janitors to advertising executives.