Posted on 08/16/2002 3:09:25 PM PDT by 45Auto
Hey, you love liberty right? You are well qualified.
FReegards
I used to think the same way, and occasionally, I still fall into that kind of depressive notion. If you look at the history of the last century, there have been several times in America that it looked like the next revolution was about to happen. The biggest one was the Great Depression era, the next was the Vietnam War years. Along the way there were numerous other little events that I though might inspire chaos. Of course, the biggest events like WWI and WWII and the Korean War really showed what the nation was made of. Its kind of sad that it usually takes such cataclysmic events to bring the country more or less together, but that's the nature of a free Republic. Now, a total collapse of the economy, that's another story!
I picked up a copy of Tom Clancey's book "Debt of Honor" because I was told it explored the scenario of a disgruntled Japanese Investor who flew a commercial jet into a Joint Session of Congress for revenge. The book was published in 1993, long before 911.
While it is true that particular scene is in the book, most of the book discusses the means by which an economic collapse is easier than ever to engineer primarily because of the conflux of electronic digital cash transfers with the vast unregulated power of the Federal Reserve.
In this particular plot it is the Japanese who are ticked because they lost their shirts in American real estate in the eighties and took heavy losses reselling the distressed properties back to Americans.
So they create a world wide financial crisis under guise: "If we are going down we are taking all you bustards with us"
Before any one thinks this is pure fantasy take a close look at Argentina (this year!) where the government basically said to the populace "your money is not your money until we say it is your money" and just shut down the banking system.
Not much comprehensive coverage about this in the USA press but something to think about if you don't yet believe ammo is the currency of the 21st Century.
Best regards,
So did a lot of other folks.
The Arabs know this, the Chinese know this, the Hispanics know this and apparently Robert Kocher wrote a lengthy treatise on this very topic a few years back.
Let's run down a brief list of those who also "knew" that "this society is as brittle as a porcelain cup-one tap in the right place and it will shatter in a million pieces."
The German Imperial General Staff, 1918; the Japanese Imperial General Staff in 1941; the High Command of the German Army, 1941; the Communist Party of the Soviet Union Central Committee, 1945; the al-Qaeda organization, 2001.
Let's see, that's four down and another group I wouldn't sell life insurance to.
Excellent! Positive thinking is good! Be sure to follow up with positive action.
Remember none of the groups you listed owned and operated the Panama Canal as does Hutchinson-Whompoa (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chinese Army.)
None of the groups you listed infiltrated millions of their compatriots into 10 or 15 receptive states where they arrogantly believe they have rights that exceed the rights of the existing tax base as do the Hispanics.
And of course, none of the groups you listed ever managed to take down two of the world's tallest buildings in little over three hours and kill some 3,000 non combatants in one fell swoop as did Al-Queda.
If HomeFRONT security meant the establishment of target ranges in every nook and cranny of the country and the encouragement to citizens of all ages to engage in routine target practice with contemporary military weapons I would not be as concerned.
If HomeFRONT security meant encouraging select members of every community to become familiar with and undergo training in the use of contemporary crew served weapons I would not be as concerned.
If HomeFRONT security meant the distribution of fire hoses into every nook and cranny of the land with training in their use down to the neighborhood level I would not be as concerned.
It seems however, none these ideas are even contemplated by the Bush Administration with their badly named and badly conceived HomeLAND security proposals.
Consequently, I stand by my analysis of catastrophic societal change.
As 911 demonstrated, things have a funny way of changing in in the blink of an eye.
May God grant it never happens to you. But it happened in Rhwanda in 1994 and it is happening in Zimbabwe now. As well as Argentina and other Latin American countries.
Best regards,
As opposed to engaging in your paranoid brand of intellectual onanism, sure.
Remember none of the groups you listed owned and operated the Panama Canal as does Hutchinson-Whompoa (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chinese Army.)
No, they just owned and operated all of Europe from the Elbe to the Urals and beyond.
None of the groups you listed infiltrated millions of their compatriots into 10 or 15 receptive states where they arrogantly believe they have rights that exceed the rights of the existing tax base as do the Hispanics.
Uh, the number of people who actually believe that is vanishingly small--about the same number of folks who were true believers in the USSR in this land back when the USSR was a going concern.
There is a saw that goes "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't do or teach, organize political protests." The folks who believe as you do hold non-teaching tenured posts in academia and organize political protests, which is about as close to the do-nothing center of the Universe as you can get.
And of course, none of the groups you listed ever managed to take down two of the world's tallest buildings in little over three hours and kill some 3,000 non combatants in one fell swoop as did Al-Queda.
No, they simply destroyed the United States Pacific Fleet as a fighting force in three hours. Hell, the World Trade Center didn't even TRY to shoot back.
If HomeFRONT security meant the establishment of target ranges in every nook and cranny of the country and the encouragement to citizens of all ages to engage in routine target practice with contemporary military weapons I would not be as concerned.
There ARE target ranges in every nook and cranny of the country. If you are so pathetically lazy that you can't be bothered to use one NOW, then handing you an M-16 would be a waste of a perfectly serviceable weapon. I thought conservatives were self-starters who didn't need government handouts.
If HomeFRONT security meant encouraging select members of every community to become familiar with and undergo training in the use of contemporary crew served weapons I would not be as concerned.
Well, if the criterion is "select" members of the community, then you are NOT someone I'd "select," as you have exhibited a level of mental randomness that really precludes any sane person from trusting you with dangerous implements--such as those stupid scissors they issue to kindergarteners.
If HomeFRONT security meant the distribution of fire hoses into every nook and cranny of the land with training in their use down to the neighborhood level I would not be as concerned.
More handouts from government, I see...
It seems however, none these ideas are even contemplated by the Bush Administration with their badly named and badly conceived HomeLAND security proposals.
With good reason...
Consequently, I stand by my analysis of catastrophic societal change.
Actually, you stand behind it. But objective historical analysis shows that said analysis is (a) parked on a steep hill without its wheels turned into the curb, and (b) doesn't have the parking brake set. I wouldn't stand behind it if I were you...
As 911 demonstrated, things have a funny way of changing in in the blink of an eye.
Yup, 9/11 really demonstrated that "this society is as brittle as a porcelain cup."
May God grant it never happens to you.
I've learned over the years that when someone says this, they really mean "Please, God, let these awful things smite this wrong-thinking infidel when I'm watching."
But it happened in Rhwanda in 1994 and it is happening in Zimbabwe now. As well as Argentina and other Latin American countries.
And we share so much in common with those countries in terms of culture, legal traditions, et cetera.
You have managed to misread or misinterpret just about everything I said. My apologies in advance if I am unable exchange tit for tat with you on a regular basis since this stuff really does take me away from my other duties. But I will take a shot at it this time on the off chance it will make a difference.
As opposed to engaging in your paranoid brand of intellectual onanism, sure.
Okay, strike one. If you can't play well with others I will invoke rules of age appropriate behaviour and suspend your right to converse with me and declare a timeout. We have never been formally introduced and I see no reason to think anything but the best thoughts about you. I expect you to reciprocate with courteous speech and appropriate good manners.
No, they just owned and operated all of Europe from the Elbe to the Urals and beyond.
Be careful not to make the mistake of many great military minds and prepare to fight the last war perfectly while ignoring current circumstances that make the next war completely different.
Uh, the number of people who actually believe that is vanishingly small--about the same number of folks who were true believers in the USSR in this land back when the USSR was a going concern.
Forgive me, I forgot we don't live in a Republic but a Democracy and if the VAST OVERWHELMING MAJORITY believe a foolish thing it is no longer a foolish thing. I am so chagrined. What was I thinking?
There is a saw that goes "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't do or teach, organize political protests." The folks who believe as you do hold non-teaching tenured posts in academia and organize political protests, which is about as close to the do-nothing center of the Universe as you can get.
Thanks for the career advice. I'll look into that political protest thing. It may be the do-nothing center of the universe but I understand a lot of money changes hands. I may have overlooked the perfect opportunity. I have heard that people WITHOUT TENURE on the modern campus are generally considered to be too far to the right. Validation by any other name and all that.
No, they simply destroyed the United States Pacific Fleet as a fighting force in three hours. Hell, the World Trade Center didn't even TRY to shoot back.
Do a Google search. You are really comparing Apples and Oranges here. Though I don't know, you might invoke that VAST OVERWHELMING MAJORITY clause again as justification.
There ARE target ranges in every nook and cranny of the country..
I guess that depends on your definition of nook and cranny. Within living memory it was common practice for teenage boys to join the High School Shooting Team and practice marksmanship on High School property. Many old timers will share memories of traveling their hometown or city on bus or bicycle carrying a single shot .22 without challenge. Try that today.
Many jurisdictions are "cracking down" on any form of shooting practice by anyone including adults firing air rifles in their backyards.
It is easier to jump through the flaming hoops necessary to open Topless Bar than it is to open a target range and the costs of regulation are astronomically out of line with any reasonable rate of return.
A large number of people who desire to shoot centerfire rifle at 100 yards or more must frequently travel a minimum of 1 to 2 hours even in "2nd Amendment friendly areas".
For some reason if your small child has dreams of Olympic Gymnastics or Figure Skating it is acceptable to drag them out of bed at 4 AM for practice, put them through a full day of school and return them to practice until 8 PM.
Do anything remotely similiar with a promising young shooter and you may be subject to investigation for child abuse.
And this of course is just the tip of the iceberg.
If you are so pathetically lazy that you can't be bothered to use one NOW, then handing you an M-16 would be a waste of a perfectly serviceable weapon.
Once again let me remind you discourteous intemperate language will not be tolerated after this post. Rest assured the rifles I currently own shoot far more accurately over a far longer distance than the Issue M-16 I carried in the service.
I thought conservatives were self-starters who didn't need government handouts.
I'll split the difference with you on this one. The orginal definition of militia included very specific equipment requirements to be supplied by the individual citizen.Certainly my equipment meets or exceeds any requirement of the Army. However, if we look at the Swiss model government is a necessary component to insure standardization. I would end all forms of other welfare including corporate welfare long before I would stop supplying sealed ammunition and high explosives to a home defense Army.
Well, if the criterion is "select" members of the community, then you are NOT someone I'd "select," as you have exhibited a level of mental randomness that really precludes any sane person from trusting you with dangerous implements--such as those stupid scissors they issue to kindergarteners.
This statement qualifies you for Strike Two. There is absolutely no need for gratitutious ad homeniem attacks in a reasonable dialogue between two reasonable people. One more and you are suspended from further conversation with me until you can demonstrate good manners.
My level of sanity has been determined by the US Government to be sufficiently acceptable to be part of a battalion trained in Small Unit Tactics and Introductory Crew Served Weapons among other requirements. I don't know if that reassures you or not. Sleep well.
More handouts from government, I see...
See above.
Actually, you stand behind it. But objective historical analysis shows that said analysis is (a) parked on a steep hill without its wheels turned into the curb, and (b) doesn't have the parking brake set. I wouldn't stand behind it if I were you...
This is a curious piece of work. You redefine my words to fit your meaning and then proceed to mangle your own meaning.
Objective historical analysis suggests a car should be parked with it's engine facing down hill so as to avoid wear and tear on the engine and transmission when starting off. The only reasonable place to stand would be behind or beside it with or without parking brakes set. Yet you seem to suggest otherwise. I can understand a public school graduate who lives in San Francisco might become accustomed to the idea of backing your tailpipe up against the curb, but I assure you the rest of the country eschews the practice. You aren't a public school graduate by any chance, are you?
Yup, 9/11 really demonstrated that "this society is as brittle as a porcelain cup."
Have you witnessed the insanity known as Airport Security?
I've learned over the years that when someone says this, they really mean "Please, God, let these awful things smite this wrong-thinking infidel when I'm watching."
If it's reverse psychology you need maybe this will help: May you briefly feel the full force and fury of God's wrath to better appreciate the blessings you so blithely take for granted. More to your taste?
And we share so much in common with those countries in terms of culture, legal traditions, et cetera.
More than you might believe. This is not your Grandfather's representative Constitutional Republic.
One other question: Did you read the Robert Kocher article I linked or are you ignoring his work because it is too hard to cavalierly dismiss his comments with ad homeniem insults. Somehow I think it would be easier. He won't rebutt.
Best regards,
As for the Kocher article, anything that the late Billy Milton "Aliens Ate My Buick!" Cooper posted on his website isn't worth the bandwidth used to argue about it.
As for my whining and sniveling: I call them the way I see 'em. You came across as a guy who wants gubmint handouts for your preferred recreational activity.
So you admit you are a public school graduate unable to properly understand or communicate or discuss your own position especially if it involves using language other than that which is unbecoming to a Marine or the Marine Corps.
As for the Kocher article, anything that the late Billy Milton "Aliens Ate My Buick!" Cooper posted on his website isn't worth the bandwidth used to argue about it.
A curious statement from someone who posts an average of every fifteen minutes over the course of a fourteen hour day.
As for my whining and sniveling: I call them the way I see 'em. You came across as a guy who wants gubmint handouts for your preferred recreational activity.
"Whining and sniveling"? I was unaware you were "whining and sniveling",. You however, seem excessively aware you were "whining and sniveling". Must be a guilty conscience as well as an abusive ad homeniem attack on your own position. Glad to learn you treat yourself as you would treat others. A shadow version of the Golden Rule I guess.
Homefront Defense is not a recreational activity.
Please forgive my inability to follow up. Duty calls. This has been nothing if not educational for me.
Many thanks.
Best regards,
A large number of people who desire to shoot centerfire rifle at 100 yards or more must frequently travel a minimum of 1 to 2 hours even in "2nd Amendment friendly areas".
Not too many years ago there were perhaps a half dozen rifle ranges in the Denver metro area as well as open space areas close by where I could go shoot rifles after work or on Saturday morning. Now there is one range left, and their lease is coming due, and all of the open space areas are off limits. One must now join a private range or drive to the mountains. Either option is really an all day affair.
FReegards
Here is an experiment for you. Open the Yellow Pages and count the number of Laser Tag and Paint Ball Facilities now open and available.
Places where children can go to learn poor trigger control and weapons handling combined with reckless tactics and poor discipline proliferate while the necessary discipline of actual target practice and marksmanship with real tools of defense withers.
Best regards,
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