Gulf war figures question Iraq plan: Schwarzkopf says U.S. needs a coalition

MSNBC ^ | August 16, 2002 | MNSBC

[ejdrapes]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/788858.asp

Key figures involved in the Persian Gulf War have questioned America’s preparedness for another attack on Iraq. Retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf and former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft say international support is critical for a campaign to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

SCHWARZKOPF, SPEAKING on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” also argued that the United States will need better intelligence before it attempts a “regime change” in Iraq. He noted that during the Persian Gulf War, when he led the international coalition that defeated Iraq, the military was never able to locate Saddam Hussein. Schwarzkopf commanded a force that involved more than 40 nations in 1991 and the general said a coalition in favor of ousting Saddam was essential. “We have to have that kind of support,” he said. Schwarzkopf told MSNBC’s Chris Matthews on Thursday that a military campaign without the assistance of Saudi Arabia would be difficult. More than 200,000 American troops were based in the desert kingdom during the 1991 war but the Saudi leaders have refused to help in a new attack on Iraq.

Separately, Scowcroft, a former national security adviser to President Gerald Ford and former President George Bush, warned against moving on Baghdad while the war on terrorism in progress. In the Wall Street Journal on Thursday, he wrote there was little evidence linking Saddam to terrorist organizations and “he is unlikely to risk his investment in weapons of mass destruction, much less his country, by handing such weapons to terrorists who would use them for their own purposes.”

[Terp]

You wrote: "now, we're considering reclassifying a missing pilot as a pretext for attacking Iraq. That's desperation."

You sound like Phil Donahue. This is so much bull.

Terp

[flyer182]

The movement of the tank brigade was not needed. It was a result of Stormin not recognizing the iraqi's had no ability to fight a coordinated defense. Should had been obvious to the army planners, the Marines recognizied it after Khafji. The air compaign worked well on the strategic level. To the detriment of the operational level. Why the Marines stopped sending aircraft to the JFACC. And while we kicked out the Iraqi's, we failed to destroy the CG for Saddam as the Marines moved quicker than the army had planned for, again a result of over-estimating the enemy and under estimating the Marines. So Saddam was able to retain his power, and we are in a position of having to fight him again, but at least the Kuwaiti's are free. Bottom-line; it was an uncoordinated assault that allowed Saddam to retain power. Not to mention Stormin's complete foolishness at the end of the war in his negotiation's with the iraqi's. Nothing that the Joint Commander did was deft.

[Always A Marine]

"...lets not bulshit anyone with this quagmire stuff, it will be a cakewalk this time, just as the last time."

I'm not worried about defeating Iraq on the battlefield; that's the easy part.

We got out in 1991 while Iraq was still a viable nation. But if we actually destroy the government of Iraq -- not to mention a large portion of its infrastructure -- we will then be responsible for occupying and rebuilding the nation we destroyed. Try to envision a large American force occupying a Muslim nation for an indefinite length of time -- that's a lightning rod for trouble, and a real quagmire.

[Yasotay]

Your personal attacks on Schwarzkopf are disgusting. You are correct that I have no combat experience ... only enlisted experience (US Army Rangers) .... USMA .... and Command of two Infantry Companies. I sat out the war in Berlin as an Infantry Company Commander.

The 24th got alot of press .... maybe that is why you seem impressed with it's CG. What about the 1st AD's CG MG Griffith. In almost EVERY area of performance his division far exceeded the 24th's performance.

My brother also fought as a company commander attached to the 24th. Perhaps you would like to talk about the 24th's performance DURING the war.

My point is really basic ... if you cannot back up your statements then do not make them. Schwarzkopf won and you are complaining. You can "weap" all you want but it is clear to me that I have known and do know far better men then you.

[VaBthang4]

So do I.

I could be wrong but I doubt it. To bring up that kind of unsolicited informations as though it were some sort of trump card reeks of an ahem...."Administrative" background.

[Terp]

Quote: "Saddam has not strayed beyond his borders since 1990."

And why do you think this is? Could it be because we have him in a box, correct me if I'm wrong don't we already have control of close to half of Iraqi airspace right now?

Terp

[Naplm]

I think its a very viable option.There was a meeting this last week of Iraqi factions ready to fill the void, the status quo in Iraq is no longer viable post 9-11, and a forcefull toehold in the region may be whats needed for our security nowdays.

[grasshopper]

The responses to your post are typical. The sheeple are braiwashed by media for unconditional war as they were braiwashed for the election and REELECTION of bubba. Sad. I have the feeling we gonna choke on this one like we choked on bubba. It's stupid really to blame bubba for anything.

[Always A Marine]

MajGen Keys would argue that Tiger Brigade was indespensable. I would argue that overestimating your enemy is a healthy thing; underestimating is far worse. You plan to your enemy's potential, not only to his perceived weaknesses, since things do not always go well. We on the ground should be thankful that the enemy's will to fight was broken during the air war, and that the wind was blowing north on D-Day. Otherwise, the cost might have been higher.

[VaBthang4]

"Your personal attacks on Schwarzkopf are disgusting. You are correct that I have no combat experience ... only enlisted experience (US Army Rangers) .... USMA .... and Command of two Infantry Companies."

So let me understand this as I do not want to be mistaken in my impression.

You were both enlisted ["only enlisted experience"] and an officer [Command of two Infantry Companies"]?

You can talk of whomever you choose none of that impacts the people I spoke of. Perhaps if Commanders had been impressed with Griffith then maybe he would've gotten some attention but the fact of the matter is that both Cheney and Powell were impressed with McCaffrey before and after the conflict.

You can bring up other commanders all you want....nothing affects that.

You obviously have reading and comprehension problems as I have stated the reasons why I find Shwarz to be a bafoon. I am not complaining, I am sharing my honest appraisal of the man....you dont agree...that's cool, but get over yourself. Nothing I have said concerning Franks or MCaffrey is false. Their actions and Schwarzkopf's involvement with the two are a direct reflection on Schwarzkopf. McCaffrey did what he was tasked with and more. Franks screwed the pooch...he had his motivations but none are excuses. Schwarzkopf pondered replacing him with Waller but did not. I think he should've.

In the end...the Air Force, Navy and Marine corps pilots as well as McCaffrey cleaned up Franks mess.

Schwarzkopf still dropped the ball in stopping the ground offensive before a double envelopement was complete [Though he claimed it was complete] and in afteraction negotiations with defeated Iraqi generals. That is reality and cannot be argued against or debated away.

[flyer182]

I do not see that we have any choice. We are forced to drag a 15th century culture and religion into the 21st century. Much better to do it from inside their house then from inside ours. Unless we decide to adopt some anti-muslim laws disallowing immigration we are only going to have more interaction in our own borders and continued friction. The current governments are corrupt and theocratic. What choice do we have? Taking Iraq allows us to sit inside the middle east without having to pretend the saudi's are our friends, and allows us positional advantage of dealing with iranians as the russians need them to move oil.

[Always A Marine]

If we have Saddam in such a tight box, then what's the rush to move in and get rid of him? Is there a real necessity to go to war at this point? You might be convinced, but I am not.

[VaBthang4]

That's cool....thanks for the compliment.

[flyer182]

As commander his job was to defeat the Republican Guard to allow Saddam to fall. That did not happen. So we are to fight Gulf War II. Let's hope the wind remains favorable.

[Always A Marine]

Schwarzkopf still dropped the ball... That is reality and cannot be argued against or debated away.

Oh, well -- since it comes from the burning bush, other opinions of the CINC's role in one of history's most overwhelming victories really don't matter. Guess I'll just shut up...

[VaBthang4]

"If we have Saddam in such a tight box, then what's the rush to move in and get rid of him? Is there a real necessity to go to war at this point? "

It is then your assertion that Hussein's desire for weapons of mass destruction is not clear nor is his willingness to use those same weapons.

Quite a gamble...one option, we go to war, possibly losing thousands [No more] in insuring he doesnt gain this sort of power thus insuring our own as well as our allies safety....the other options is take the gamble and risk losing hundreds of thousands of Americans or allies.

I know the decision the majority of American people are ready to make.

[Always A Marine]

As commander his job was to defeat the Republican Guard to allow Saddam to fall.

President Bush clearly stated that the military mission was to force the Iraqis out of Kuwait, period. It was the President's decision to limit the mission, and to end the hostilities before completely defeating the enemy. Neither decision was within the purview of General Schwarzkopf as CINCENT.

[Naplm]

MCaffrey did such a great job, the libs branded him a war criminal for the Hi-way of death, that alone should tell you he did one hell of a job!

[grasshopper]

The current governments are corrupt and theocratic. What choice do we have?

No choice. Have to get rid of evil, burn the burqas, do the haircuts, shave the beards.

What am I talking about?

[VaBthang4]

"Oh, well -- Guess I'll just shut up..."

Not necessary.
Acknowledging my points that Schwarzkopf did indeed stop too early and made a very important mistake in allowing the Iraqis to dupe him into allowing Helicopters to fly...that is necessary.

As for it being an overwhelming victory...that is more a reflection on the air campaign designed by Col. Warden than on any strategic or tactical decisions made by Schwarzkopf.