Computational Geneticists Revisit A Mystery In Evolution

Science Daily ^ | Date:Posted 8/8/2002 | Editorial Staff

[eno_]

Read a book on this stuff. Wolfram shows you can enumerate every program in many simple systems and still get non-trivial results above a certain (and suprisingly low) threshold of complexity. Programs also tend to behave similarly. In other words, the popular notion of just bashing random locations in a complex program most likely resulting in garbage results is wrong. But, as these people show, evolution as the only input to how natural programs are organized is also probably wrong.

[eno_]

Random programs, but non-random results. Genes as we know them on Earth might be just one way for life to emerge, and the rules that govern how and where this can happen are probably more general than terrestrial biology.

[gore3000]

I'm sure I'm going to be sorry I asked, but which is it? Random or not random?

Non-random of course. Programs do not write themselves at random and what we have in the development of an organism is a very tightly controlled process which has to proceed exactly. Also the evidence in the article of this process ignoring mutations, shows quite well that it cannot be changed at random.

[gore3000]

But, as these people show, evolution as the only input to how natural programs are organized is also probably wrong.

So what is supposedly this other input? Also can you give some examples of these simple systems that give supposedly complex results?

[eno_]

At www.wolframscience.com you can browse cample pages from his book, and, if you have Mathematica, you can download and run the code that actually conducts his experiments.

That "other input" to how genetics works are the laws of complexity theory. In other words, random mutation and evolution do not have a free hand in modifying genomes. There are more basic laws of complexity, information theory, expressive power of systems, etc. at work. Biochemistry meets information theory.

[gore3000]

That "other input" to how genetics works are the laws of complexity theory. In other words, random mutation and evolution do not have a free hand in modifying genomes. There are more basic laws of complexity, information theory, expressive power of systems, etc. at work. Biochemistry meets information theory.

Sounds a lot like intelligent design to me. Information does not create or arrange itself.

[f.Christian]

...biggest cult of oxy-moonie-morons---art bells!

Like patrickhenry...

"search for the creator via evolution"---

"total--only evolution" too---

The papal encyclical rightwingprofessor-whack thinks/interprets---"professes evolution"...

Nebullis..."preschool evolution---INTENSIVELY"---

donh..."if the sun can create crystals-snowflakes...human life would certainly follow"---

also by donh...Hitler and nazi germany were all Christians---creationists!

dominick harr..."just like a ball bouncing down the stairs----evolution created everything"---

jennyp..."anarchist evolutionary capitalism(natural)---Christianity(manmade) is communism"---

and patrickhenry doesn't know..."if prior to darwin---if science existed"...

SkyRat...Divine hammer-retribution from above via evolution!

exdemmom...evolution is the "lug wrench" that fixes science--biology/life!

Running sores of evo schlock!

Few new ones by the vade--junior--ph evo cult...

More schlock---latests(evo proof/matches/links)...

over---abundance of dung for beetles...schlock providence/miracles

ground depressions on earth surfaces collect liquids producing ponding---more spontaneous schlock opportunities/diversity...

motion/movement is created via biological interference/resistance in gravitational force fields...

foot/toe ground contact---attractions/balance...

standing/walking/running upright

amazing...dancing too!

My own...how evo schlock made us...

Insects vibrate molecules and gas particles---sound...and how humans procreate via words/instruments---music/songs.

I get it!

This schlock is so simple...natural---unplanned---no design!

Presto...mommies/daddies---babies!

[eno_]

Make of it what you like, but it is more likely that Wolfram's and other complexity theory work will show that complex systems can emerge from random origins.

[gore3000]

Make of it what you like, but it is more likely that Wolfram's and other complexity theory work will show that complex systems can emerge from random origins.

I really wanted to learn more about it, was hoping you could give a fuller explanation.

[eno_]

Well, I'm a little out of my depth in composing a one paragraph summary of complexity theory, but here goes: Simple programs can produce complex results. The power of the programs need only reach a very low threshold before the results yield complex patterns that are not easy to predict. These systems are simple enough that you can enumerate every program in those systems, try them, and see if complex results are produced. This might mean that various natural systems where chemicals constitute systems that contain and process information can emerge and produce complex results without any outside organizing impetus.

[Nebullis]

Nice article. Thanks for posting this.

[AndrewC]

You are a complete igoramus

Snicker!