Some can sail over high school

USA Today ^ | 08/06/2002 | Laura Vanderkam

[TxBec]

Noshua Watson has crammed much into her 24 years of life: four years in college, four years in graduate school at Stanford, close to three years reporting for Fortune. She recently entertained an offer to teach college-level economics. Her secret? She never went to high school. Instead, at age 13, she enrolled as a freshman in Mary Baldwin College's Program for the Exceptionally Gifted in Staunton, Va.

[EdReform]

BTTT

[XBob]

the average 8th grader 100 years ago was better educated than the average college graduate today.

[mlmr]

Does anyone know if there are any Christian conservative colleges or universities that have an early school program. My daughter is ready but the only other one I know is at Bard and that is a little too leftist for comfort.

[XBob]

I don't know about today, but in 1966, when I was teaching chemistry and biology at a good high school - Cocoa Beach, FL (Home of Cape Canaveral and many of the rocket scientests and engineers who got us to the moon) I had a girl who in 11th grade had completed 2nd year chemistry, 2nd year biology, 2nd year calculus, and 2nd year physics (don't know if high schools even offer these courses today), and anyway, she quit, and the state refused to graduate her (all she could do her senior year was 1st year home economics, 1st year shop - etc).

She went directly to college w/o hs degree at Stetson Univ in Deland, FL. At that time, it was a highly reputed, small, private University at Deland, Florida - near Daytona Beach.

I don't know what is up today though, and if it is liberal, or good or what. But it is worth checking out.

[ladylib]

High school for the majority of students is a monumental failure. It's just something to get through before you can start to live. Adding school days and school years isn't going to help the problem either. The president of Bard says that by the time a kid is 16, he should be in college or out in the workforce. I like the idea of a student getting an associates degree by the time he is 16. Homeschoolers do it. High school just extends childhood, treating kids like potential criminals (pee tests, searches, mind-numbing indoctrination, having to beg to go to the bathroom). Those who want to move on should be permitted to do so, but of course, those who do move on can't be indoctrinated and watched.

[ladylib]

Many colleges will accept students who do not have high school diplomas. So anytime a high school decides to deny a diploma to a kid for not taking the required "Indoctrination 110", he should check with his college. Colleges are interested in transcripts, not diplomas. Home schoolers aren't issued state diplomas. My brother-in-law went to college without a high school diploma. He's now the vice president of a pediatric health care business.

[OldPossum]

There is a lot in this that makes sense but a couple sentences give me pause. Here's one:

"Nothing destroys a love of learning like forcing a kid who wants to fix engines to spend his youth memorizing the kings of medieval France."

I suppose the author is trying to make a point as regards frustration on the part of a person who has a vocation in mind at the expense of making light of history, but it is the understanding of history that allows a citizen to understand the underpinnings of his culture. The lack of this understanding is precisely what allows citizens to be manipulated by politicians.

Yes, I know that we are not French but it is the values passed on to us by the Founding Fathers, all of whom were well versed in the the Old World (European and Greek) philosophers that guide our nation today.

[XBob]

the germans seem to have the best system - at about 14 or 16 they determine if they wish to fix cars or be more academic, and they split off into two lines - apprentice ship programs for those not study inclined, and a college program for those who wish to continue their education. That gives them excellent mechanics and excellent intellectuals, each specializing in the area where they are best suited.

[Fidgit]

Ping

[jriemer]

In my HS graduating class, we had an extremely gifted student who was THREE classes ahead of her age. The problem was - Illinois state law at the time required that all HS graduates needed to pass their HS drivers education course or an equivalent. The girl was barely 15 at the time of graduation and couldn't even get a student drivers permit.

As a result, the drivers Ed. graduation requirement was dropped from the law a year later. The girl graduated on time after receiving special dispensation from the State School Board and went on to study physics at the University of Chicago.

When I drive around Illinois, I still cringe thinking about the possible unintended consequences of changing that law.

jriemer

[zeaal]

I heard the out-going president of the NEA on the radio recently. This man is convinced (and stated so) the majority of public schools are doing just fine. He was not as generous with homeschool. duh. But, to think he truly believes public (read government) schools are doing well is laughable.

[realpatriot71]

But it's a shame to rely on nostalgia to hold the country together. For anyone who's different, high school can be an act of mental violence. For them, at best, it's a waste of time. Gifted students are getting fed up and leaving early. As they do, smart parents and teachers alike should seize the chance to rethink the institution of high school and whether this common cultural experience is the best way to achieve America's educational goals.

Bingo! I'm no genius but I was SOOOOOOO bored in HS. I would take the hardest classes offered and still find myself wishing I could learn more. High Schools either need to "step-it-up" for those students who are so inclined or open up the stateschool system to those students who can handle it early.

[realpatriot71]

The only problem with the German system is that you get "locked into" the decision you make at 16. The beauty of our system is that anyone can go back anytime they want to learn whatever they want. A high-school drop out laborer type could decide when he's 30 to finish high school, go to college, and then law school. That's the reason our system is better

[ladylib]

Unfortunately, with School-to-Work programs, we are headed in that direction. Kids having to decide what they want to do by the time they are in 8th grade and being trained for it rather than given a traditional education. Eventually, they will have to go before a workforce board if they want to change jobs or go back to school. Just type "Marc Tucker's letter to Hillary Clinton" in your address line and read all about it. It's already here in some states.

[gaffin]

My step daughter was in college at 14. High School is generally a waste of academic time. If a kid has half a brain they can deal with college at a younger age. Highs schools now spend too much time in (liberal) social programing. The main thing I learned to do in high school was drink and smoke dope. (I don't do either now)

[Wright is right!]

I said this on another thread relating to the error of referring to 16-year-old girls as "pedophile targets" and "children." To wit,

""So what are we doing the rest of the 12 years?" he asks. "We're teaching habits of obedience. We've extended childhood to an insane degree because it makes people more manageable."

Unsaid in this article is that High School is a product of the educational establishment designed as a jobs-creation program. If you can create a perceived need for a longer basic education, then you can, by definition, create a like need for more employees to staff it.

Until the early 20th Century, as this article correctly points out, "childhood" ended at around 13, with the conclusion of basic education. This basic education crammed into 7 years everything that a well-rounded adult should be expected to know, as well as the tools to equip him for meaningful, productive life. There have been several postings of "The Test" as it's called which graduating students were expected to pass. (If someone has the URL for it, please post) It is a test that few graduating seniors could pass today in the current "haah-skrewl" environment.

And the side effects, the "unintended consequences" of artificially prolonging childhood abound. Of course, actual Childhood ends at puberty, and Adolescence begins. Adolescence is what's being prolonged - it used to only last a year or two. But with earlier and earlier puberty, the youth of today is artificially forced into a 7 or 8 year "adolescence," a period in which their adult bodies and minds are still treated (by law) like "children."

And, yes, it does tend to pound those young skulls into mush, to make them more "manageable."

The High School Culture, by now though, is thoroughly ingrained - not just in the US but worldwide in one form or fashion - and it will not easily topple. Some of its other consequences are, however, amusing to contemplate. In Japan, for instance, the bulk of one's learning will still occur in "haah-skrewl," even among those going on to University. Haah-skrewl in Japan is TOUGH. University, on the other hand, is more a rite of passage - to many, a non-stop last-chance party before entering the lifetime servitude of the World Of The Salaryman. "Live it up now while you're here, because it all stops once you walk out that door," the idea remains.

One used to become an adult by necessity - now, childhood is artificially prolonged and the responsibilities of adulthood aren't taught until it's too late for them to be a part of one's basic nature. It's a sad state.

Michael

[TxBec]

This test?

[jae471]

I had a girl who in 11th grade had completed 2nd year chemistry, 2nd year biology, 2nd year calculus, and 2nd year physics (don't know if high schools even offer these courses today)

Some of them are offered at better public high schools still. It often depends on the size of the school. My HS offered them, but it was a "science and technology" school with 3,000 students (largest in MD). Alot of how far a student can go depends on the middle school, though. My middle school only offered algebra, so I was "trapped" in how far I could go. I had to take Geometery, Alg-II/Trig, and Pre-Cal my first three years of HS. My senior year I opted for Stat instead of Calc (Both were AP classes) There was one girl at my hs who took geometery in middle school, then took math classes over one or two summers. She ended up taking Chaos Theory or something similar her senior year at Maryland-College Park. With Chem, my HS offered Chem, AP Chem, and Organic. I took Chem and AP Chem, and that earned me credit for Chem 103/113 at Maryland. I regret not taking more AP classes now.

Smaller schools simply don't have enough students willing to take advanced classes to offer them. Another hs (actually, my neighborhood hs), a mile away, sat mostly empty with 800 students and a poor record, despite being in a not-so-bad neighborhood. (Most of the good students went to my hs on transfer.)

[jae471]

The grammar on that test is rough. I only had one class the dealt with grammar anywhere near that level -- in 7th grade -- and then it was mostly diagraming sentences.

Most of my understanding of grammar rules came French class, not English class.