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To: Iota
I can see Stalin accomplishing his evil without the aid of Darwinism (in fact, I think he did so),

I honestly don't. But I understand that is mostly opinion.

but I can't see Jim Jones committing his evil deeds without the aid of organized religion (perverted though his version was).

I think Jones -- or Charles Mansen who could also illustrate your point -- would have used whatever means at his disposal to control his followers.

But if the positive exposure to Christianity of Jim Jones (who surely had to be exposed to it so as to pervert it) didn't turn him into a good person, how can you reasonably assume that the absence of exposure to Darwin (who makes no moral pronouncements at all) could have resulted in a good Stalin?

A very good point.

Remember, my opinion is primarily formed by the report concerning that book -- which specifically said Stalin gave up his religion due to Darwin -- and other reports which buttress that claim albeit less specifically.

If Stalin had a JudeoChristian value system that he gave up due to a belief that Darwin showed that God didn't exist, then it's logical to believe he would have kept it if he had never been exposed to Darwin.

It isn't logical to believe that Jones would give up a Christian value system because he read the Bible.

Maybe Jones was born bad, but Stalin wasn't.

349 posted on 08/15/2002 1:29:17 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
>>>I think Jones -- or Charles Mansen who could also illustrate your point -- would have used whatever means at his disposal to control his followers. <<<

Agreed.

>>>Remember, my opinion is primarily formed by the report concerning that book -- which specifically said Stalin gave up his religion due to Darwin -- and other reports which buttress that claim albeit less specifically.<<<

Actually, I don't think the book says that. I think it said Stalin (1) didn't believe in God and (2) said Darwin made it clear God didn't exist. Even if we assume the events recounted in the book to be true (an iffy proposition), it's not necessarily true that Darwinism led Stalin to abandon God; he very well could have abandoned God, then seized upon Darwin later. (Stated differently, the book doesn't describe causation, just correlation.)

>>>If Stalin had a JudeoChristian value system that he gave up due to a belief that Darwin showed that God didn't exist, then it's logical to believe he would have kept it if he had never been exposed to Darwin.<<<

As I mentioned above, I don't think the book makes as strong a case for Stalin's embrace of Darwin leading him to reject God as you do. Besides, I think if Stalin had "maintained" some sort of belief in Christianity, he'd have perverted it to serve his power. IMO, the problem of Stalin's evil goes much deeper than exposure to the ToE. But it's all speculation on both our parts.
377 posted on 08/16/2002 12:32:19 PM PDT by Iota
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