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To: HumanaeVitae
"There are some Truths that have become self-evident facts over time, in the sense that today it would be perverse to withhold assent: The right of free speech, the right of an individual to self-defense, the right of a massive group to self-defense against the government itself (i.e. secession), the right to contract, the prohibition against slavery (including slavery to enforce a contract), a representative form of government, etc."

Hey great. You're sounding more conservative by the minute. So, I suppose you're against gay marriage and bigamy, right? And abortion?

Gay marriage, no: What harm is there in a gay marriage, either to the participants' individual rights or to the health of society at large?

Bigamy: Likewise, what harm is there in a bigamist marriage, either to the participants' individual rights or to the health of society at large?

Abortion: This is a special case of a more general question: "Do helpless people have rights?" If I say "no" in an easy case (like an unseen, undeveloped fetus), then there's no logical barrier to prevent it from applying to a newborn baby, an old person on life support, a colicky 1-year old, or even myself vs. any stronger person. Morality is nothing if not applied consistently. So abortion is wrong.

However I don't think an embryo deserves to be called a "living human being" until their brain starts functioning, for the same reason most people accept brain death as the ultimate determinant of whether someone has died or not. One's definition of "living human being" has to be internally consistent too!

304 posted on 08/12/2002 7:37:09 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: jennyp
"Abortion: This is a special case of a more general question: "Do helpless people have rights?" If I say "no" in an easy case (like an unseen, undeveloped fetus), then there's no logical barrier to prevent it from applying to a newborn baby, an old person on life support, a colicky 1-year old, or even myself vs. any stronger person. Morality is nothing if not applied consistently. So abortion is wrong."

Actually, that's fantastic. The more pro-life people the better. My argument is different, but I'll take this.

Gay marriage I'm against, obviously.

Bigamy I'm against, obviously.

Let me ask you a question, Jenny. It's an economics question.

Is any one individual or small group of individuals smarter than the market? In other words, can a small group of highly intelligent people outperform the market over long periods of time?

311 posted on 08/12/2002 8:51:51 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: jennyp
Gay marriage, no: What harm is there in a gay marriage, either to the participants' individual rights or to the health of society at large?

Lots of problems. For one is the impermanence of such unions. Homosexuals are extremely promiscuos. For another we have the problem of children being adopted by such degenerates. Another problem is the tremendously large percentage of pedophiles amongst homosexuals. You will notice that no homosexual organization has ever attacked LAMBDA the organization which promotes love between adults and young children.

But most important though is that the family is the center of any society and by diluting the benefits of such unions we are encouraging the breakdown of the heart of a good society.

330 posted on 08/12/2002 9:34:55 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: jennyp
"However I don't think an embryo deserves to be called a "living human being" until their brain starts functioning, for the same reason most people accept brain death as the ultimate determinant of whether someone has died or not. One's definition of "living human being" has to be internally consistent too!"

Jenny, let me ask you a question. Do you remember anything from age 0-4 years or so? Was your brain working?

485 posted on 08/13/2002 2:08:29 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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