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To: andy_card
"I've made a decision to agree to live by and uphold certain societal norms, so we can work to the benefit of all mankind. Its very much a golden-rule type situation."

Ok, who determines these societal norms? An on the golden rule, if you're an atheist, what are the consequences of not observing it? There are none, really.

174 posted on 08/12/2002 2:01:38 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
Ok, who determines these societal norms?

In this country, we all do, through our chosen representatives. In other countries, the ruling despot or oligarchy does.

An on the golden rule, if you're an atheist, what are the consequences of not observing it? There are none, really.

Not true. If murder is excused, and I murder somebody I don't like, then I'm likely to be murdered in turn by a vengeful family member. And even if it doesn't happen, my wanton violence would simply set an example to others that wanton violence is permissable, and I could be the target of some other random act of violence.

But even beyond this uber-rationalism, I (and I suspect this is true of most people) simply have no desire to kill wantonly. I believe that most people are born with a sense of civility and altruism that precludes violence. Man is not inherently a violent animal; he must be trained to kill. I do not believe I need to be coerced by threat of retaliation to be a good person.

I'd like to think I treat people decently, not because I fear eternal perdition, but simply because compassion is ingrained into my mind as a member of the human race.

177 posted on 08/12/2002 2:14:38 PM PDT by andy_card
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To: HumanaeVitae
if you're an atheist, what are the consequences of not observing it? There are none, really.

Au contraire, mon frere. If you don't observe society's standards you will, at best, be ostracized (at worst, society will kill you to get you out of its hair). Humans are social critters out of necessity; we don't survive well outside the group.

199 posted on 08/12/2002 3:19:21 PM PDT by Junior
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