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To: HumanaeVitae
Let's put this out of the way right here. I've conceded that many people died in Christendom, approximately 4.5 million people, over 2,000 years. One hundred and eighty million people died in the last 80 years under atheism and neopaganism. That's all conceded. Does any atheist have a case to argue with, or has a lifetime of insulting fundamentalists made you intellectually flabby?

You are blind. I've given you a source of material that you've never considered before, indicating that the Spanish -- who weren't athesists -- are responsible for close to 100 million deaths. And that was without modern technology. The point is (read this twice because you sometimes miss the point) that atheists can kill and non-atheists can kill. Do you understand that? You don't have to be an atheist to be a mass murderer.

More examples? Okay, Russia, before the commie revolution, was pushing to the south and the east for centuries. Catherine the Great, Peter the Great, lots of Tzars and Tzarinas, went on a generations-long killing spree. How many millions did they kill? I don't know. Far more than the piddling 4.5 million you've graciously conceeded (without even considering Russia and Spain). The Russians (before marxism) were not atheists. So once more, the point is that atheists can kill and non-atheists can kill.

Further, you've never responded (other than by ducking) to the points made about the Mayflower passengers being bible-communists. Other examples of bible-communists were also presented, but the Mayflower is a spectacular example. So here's another point that you seem unwilling to face, but I'm going to rub it in: you don't need atheism to be a communist. Got that one? Or are you going to continue to ignore it?

Summary (for the intellectually flabby among us): You don't need to be an atheist to be a mass murderer. And you don't need to be an atheist to be a communist. And there goes your whole weird worldview. Puff. Gone. Have a nice day.

136 posted on 08/12/2002 1:01:46 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Actually my worldview is fine. If you can show me any point in the last 2,000 years where 180 million people were slaughtered--deliberately--in less than a century at the hands of Christians then we'll talk. Your post 136 didn't prove anything, really.

Let me ask you this--why did all of the major atrocities of the 20th Century occur in atheist/neopagan nations, and why did the Christian nations of the world champion life and freedom?

It's the same reason America has a Special Olympics and China doesn't. Christian respect for life. Children with Down's syndrome never make it out of the delivery room in China. That's atheism in a nutshell.

189 posted on 08/12/2002 3:00:34 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: PatrickHenry
re: your post to HV: "I've given you a source of material that you've never considered before"

Sorry, but those aren't source materials, they are merely propoganda put together by a lawyer in a civil case. The numbers are exagerated and unsourced, furthermore the language is vitriolic; it makes no pretense of objectivity.

Certainly the Spaniards were brutal bastards, but holding Christianity complicit in their deeds is a stretch, if anything the few padres that accompanied the consquistidors exercised as much of a brake on blood lust as was possible.

This piece of tripe also makes no distinction between wars, pestilence and out right murder. To lump the entire history of the New World under the title Genocide is not history but political agenda. I'm surprized you've fallen for that old canard.

But most egregiously you, and others, have gone even further by blaming Christianity for these deaths. I fully expect you, and them, to turn over your homes and property and expatriate yourselves back to your point of origin. Enough w/ this foolish posturing and back up your principles!

230 posted on 08/12/2002 4:12:03 PM PDT by Pietro
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To: PatrickHenry
... atheists can kill and non-atheists can kill.

Nonsense, Patrick. That's the "everybody does it" argument so cherished by the Clintonoids. And shouting doesn't impress. The central point is, of course, that massive numbers of people died under atheist regimes in the 20th Century. That was patently not true, for example, in the United States, a Christian nation whose citizens have intrinsic individual value and inalienable rights granted to them by their Creator.

334 posted on 08/12/2002 9:43:19 PM PDT by Phaedrus
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