[Democratic_Machiavelli]

Hmmm. Interesting. I'll look the subject over in the next few days...see what I can find.

(Don't have time right now to look at all I wrote. I apologize in advance for sounding like an idiot.) As for my comment, I meant that, from what I understand, the South felt that, to paraphrase an example from the movie "Gettysburg" (forgive me), the nation was like a big gentleman's club. If a state didn't like the rules, they could leave. It's a reminder of the questions that arose around the time the Constitution was being written. No northern state, as far as I know, ever talked about secession as a possibility (though I know of at least one border state that seriously tried to secede but was stopped by federal troops).

I think I'll join the discussion again after I've checked out some of the stuff that's already been talked about. Thanks to everyone for the info.

[NovemberCharlie]

No northern state, as far as I know, ever talked about secession as a possibility...

Massachusetts. There was talk of the Northeast seceding because of their opposition to the War of 1812.

[dtel]

...The plantation prospered. In 1858 the Smith County assessment for the property was $29,700. The value placed on 720 acres of land was $3,100; other personal property included 40 negroes, value $24,000; 11 horses, value $1,200; 60 cattle, value $360; and sundries valued at $470. The year that Richard B. Hubbard Sr. died (1864), the Hubbard Plantation was valued at $36,700, including 44 negroes to do the work, horses, cattle and miscellaneous property of $4,140- a tremendously rich "spread" of the era...

From
Hubbard and Hide-A-Way
a history
June T. Parker, 1976.

For discussion only.

A slave was worth ten times the amount of a cow.
You know I try, but I can't put my mind totally in their time. but I am thinking if a slave was worth ten times as much as a cow and six times as much as a horse, the asset was not allowed to waste away.

[stainlessbanner]

If you don't secede at first, remember try again!

• 1798 Virginia and Kentucky Resolves. Said states could nullify national law if they violated individual state rights!
• 1804 Massachusetts plotted to secede and tried to get New York to withdraw from the union and establish a "Northern Confederacy".
• 1807 Embargo Act New Jersey was going to secede due prohibition of foreign trade
• 1814, delegates from several New England states threatened to secede over President James Madison's war policies against England.
• 1844, the Massachusetts Legislature threatened secession when Congress started debating whether to admit Texas into the Union.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

(Don't have time right now to look at all I wrote. I apologize in advance for sounding like an idiot.) As for my comment, I meant that, from what I understand, the South felt that, to paraphrase an example from the movie "Gettysburg" (forgive me), the nation was like a big gentleman's club. If a state didn't like the rules, they could leave. It's a reminder of the questions that arose around the time the Constitution was being written. No northern state, as far as I know, ever talked about secession as a possibility (though I know of at least one border state that seriously tried to secede but was stopped by federal troops).

No need to apologize (although by so doing you show a grace and humility often sadly lacking in discussing such subjects).  Certainly there were some in the south (and in the north) who took your view of the union.  Calhoun, of course was one (although prior to his nullification theory he was of the opposite opinion).  However, both Jackson and Buchanan both slammed secessionists hard and in both cases the secessionists backed off.  I believe that there were some north eastern states which threatened to secede well before the Civil War (I can't remember which ones or what their reasons were).  At that time the south took a dim view of the matter.