Bull. Get your facts straight. Ft. Fillmore already had Union troops in it.
My facts are already straight. Yours however are not. The federals in the region converged at Fillmore to compose the only major army in the region after it had seceded. As the region was confederate, that army was hostile and the people there wanted it gone. Therefore they welcomed the arrival of their side's army under Baylor to do exactly that.
Yes, Lynde did attack Baylor - after Baylor invaded New Mexico.
Since when does moving an army of a region's own political affiliation into that region under the overwhelming suppor of its people for the purpose of ridding them of the presence of a nearby force belonging to the enemy that has remained congregated there against the wishes of those same people constitute "invasion" under any definition of the word, Lincoln's included?
The narrative goes on to talk about the disastrous retreat of Lynde, but the point is that Ft. Fillmore was attacked by the Texans from the direction of Mesilla. The federals didn't attack Mesilla and apparently had no plans to do so.
Did you not read your own site's narrative? I quote:
"On July 25, Lynde advanced his force of 380 from Fort Fillmore to demand Baylor's surrender. Baylor's response was, "If you wish the town and my forces, come and take them!" Lynde resolved to do just that, ordering his infantrymen into line while his two mountain howitzers began to shell the town and his mounted troops prepared to charge."
Sounds like an attack on Mesilla to me! It's also why the only major engagement there was called the Battle of Mesilla.
Baylor attacked Ft. Fillmore because he saw it as a military threat and because he was assured that he wouldn't get any civilian opposition.
He was also assured that the civilians supported the move, and in fact they had asked him to do it and added their own men to his ranks to rid their countryside of a hostile army of yankee invaders. Again, did you not read your own web site's narrative? I quote:
"That evening, the Arizona Guards, a local militia unit that had assisted in Baylor's defense, infiltrated Fort Fillmore and made off with 85 cavalry horses and 26 mules."
That sounds like a bit more than simply being assured that the civilians wouldn't oppose him. What REALLY happened is that they wanted Baylor there, took up arms along side him as part of his forces, defended the city with him, and helped him in pursuit of the yankees AFTER they were repulsed in their failed attempt to take the city while firing of the first shots.
Yeah, but you were saying that Baylor went to help Mesilla because it was being threatened by Lynde at Ft. Baylor.
No. I said and maintain that Baylor went to Mesilla at the request and open welcoming of its people, who did not want the hostile army of a foreign nation occupying strategic control over their territory. I also presume you mean Fort Fillmore.
Lynde didn't threaten to attack the town until Baylor was already in it.
But he did initiate the battle by attacking the town when Baylor got there, and his presence there alone as the only sizable army in the region placed that region under Lynde's military control against the wishes of its people.
Furthermore Lynde didn't demand the town's surrender. He demanded Baylor's surrender.
You are clearly grasping at straws in despiration with this one. Baylor's troops set up their defensive position in the town with the town's support. Mesilla added its own militia to their ranks to prepare the defense. Lynde arrived and demanded that Baylor surrender the city and his forces defending it. YET AGAIN, your own web site's narrative even indicates this fact while exposing your erronious history:
"Baylor's response was, "If you wish the town and my forces, come and take them!" Lynde resolved to do just that, ordering his infantrymen into line while his two mountain howitzers began to shell the town and his mounted troops prepared to charge."
Please get your facts straight.
They are straight. As your own chosen web site's narrative indicates, your's are not though.
It doesn't support your contention that Mesilla was under threat of Union forces prior to Baylor's arrival.
You are grasping at straws again, and in doing so ignoring the most basic concepts of military movement. An army occupying the strategic command point over a region control's that region. The yankees occupied the point commanding the region around Mesilla and were the only sizable army in that region until Baylor came along. Therefore they militarily controlled the region. Baylor's arrival and open welcoming by the confederate city of Mesilla allowed that force to be countered, and when the yankees acted to suppress the newly reinforced Mesilla, they were defeated.
So you condone that in Baylor which you would condemn in Lincoln.
Not in the least. Baylor marched an army into a confederate region at the request and full support of the people of that region to remove the presence of a hostile army occupying the command over it. He set up defensive works around the city to prepare it for an assault and to prepare himself to drive the hostile army out of the confederate city's region. That is not "invasion" under any reasonable definition of the word including Lincoln's.
Lincoln on the other hand sent hostile armies to occupy confederate regions against the will of the confederate people and with sanction to use force to suppress those people. That is, by Lincoln's own definition, "invasion."
And also, what did he save Mesilla from?
Immediately, he saved them from an assault on the town by a hostile army. Strategically, he liberated their region from the hostile army that controlled it against Mesilla's wishes.
Until Baylor entered Mesilla, the town was in no danger from Union troops.
So the fact that a hostile army occupied the military command over the region against the wishes of Mesilla's people does not mean they are under any threat?
True. This is a my bad. This is what happens when my fingers outrun my brain, and for this I apologize.
Apology accepted. Are we on the same page now as far as events went?
The true order of events was that Baylor camped about 600 yards from Ft. Fillmore planning to attack it, but surprise was denied him due to a deserter. So he occupied Mesilla instead. Lynde called on him to surrender, which he refused. Lynde then commenced a disastrous attack. After failing in his attack, Lynde then ordered an evacuation in the night. Baylor caught up with Lynde later and slaughtered his rather inebriated group of soldiers. Satisfied?
I'm not aware of any "slaughter" you speak of unless it's something I've not seen. What I do know is that Lynde abandoned his fort shortly after the battle and began a retreat to the next fort up. Baylor then cut them off on their trail by taking a shorter pass around it and Lynde surrendered his forces without a fight.
That's my point. Initially, the Five Civilized Tribes were nervous about situation and expressed a desire for strict neutrality. Other tribal documents also express this desire (and no I don't have the links to them).
Nor do I dispute that. On a similar note, some of the more moderate CSA states did not secede until Lincoln started to invade, arrest legislatures, shut down opposition and the sort. And while you are correct to note that both unionist and secessionist efforts were made in the Indian territories as was the case in most confederate states as well, in the end they fell on the side of the confederates. You may not like that it happened that way, but nevertheless it did.
He was still a southerner.
Yep, and those great "allies" of the Indians, W.T. Sherman and Abe Lincoln were both northerners.
Lincoln was born in Kentucky. So was Jefferson Davis.
Walt