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To: Non-Sequitur
Lincoln was forced into a military option by Virginia and North Carolina because both states had sided with a part of the country that was already in rebellion and, considering itself a separate country, had issued a declaration of war. Virginia had formally declared their rebellion....

You need to check the time line closely. One of the key dates is April 27, when Lincoln extended the blockade to Virginia and N. Carolina, which is an act of war and unconstitutional in peacetime as a violation of Article I, Section 9. The key is that Virginia hadn't joined the Confederacy, and N. Carolina hadn't even seated a secession convention. Virginia arguably wasn't even out of the Union yet, having voted out at their convention on April 17, I think it was, but under the procedure they settled on, the People would vote on May 23rd in their plebiscite.

If Lincoln is going to demand the states follow the letter of the law, he has to be prepared to do the same and not just invoke "executive privlege" all over the place and start quartering federal troops on people and opening fire on Militia units.

As long as there is not armed violence in these areas, Lincoln's complaints about the U.S. Mint office in Raleigh and various other facilities are a matter for the marshal service and the courts. If he felt there was some other way the States could legally leave the Union, it was on him to articulate it -- but he took the position that they could not, because he knew they would anyway, giving him the pretext for war.

I strongly urge you to check the posts above for the key dates and analyze them. Get a Civil War almanac or datebook. Check it out -- Lincoln moved for war first.

459 posted on 08/21/2002 4:04:54 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
. One of the key dates is April 27, when Lincoln extended the blockade to Virginia and N. Carolina, which is an act of war and unconstitutional in peacetime as a violation of Article I, Section 9.

Had Lincoln declared a blockade of France or Spain then you would be correct. However, Lincoln was blockading rebellious sections of his own country. You do not declare war on your own country. But even if by this time a single country had recognized confederate independence, then the issue is moot because the confederacy had declared war on the United States over a week before.

The key is that Virginia hadn't joined the Confederacy, and N. Carolina hadn't even seated a secession convention. Virginia arguably wasn't even out of the Union yet, having voted out at their convention on April 17, I think it was, but under the procedure they settled on, the People would vote on May 23rd in their plebiscite.

One could look at this two ways. One, Virginia and North Carolina had made their intentions known by voting rebellion and by siezing federal property and facilities so Lincoln's actions were justified. Or two, Virginia and North Carolina were still part of the United States, as you suggest, so moving federal troops into them or by using the navy to guard their coasts and ensure no illegal materials come into the state are both within the powers vested in the president as commander in chief. Take your pick.

If Lincoln is going to demand the states follow the letter of the law, he has to be prepared to do the same and not just invoke "executive privlege" all over the place and start quartering federal troops on people and opening fire on Militia units.

Lincoln's actions were consistent with the powers granted by the militia act. He can move federal troops within any of the states. As for the 'militia units' there were none in Charleston. They considered themselves soldiers in the confederate army, and they fired first.

As long as there is not armed violence in these areas, Lincoln's complaints about the U.S. Mint office in Raleigh and various other facilities are a matter for the marshal service and the courts.

On the contrary, the Militia Act of 1792, Section 2

"And be it further enacted, That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, the same being notified to the President of the United States, by an associate justice or the district judge, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed."

Can you show where a district judge or marshal wasn't consulted?

I strongly urge you to check the posts above for the key dates and analyze them. Get a Civil War almanac or datebook. Check it out -- Lincoln moved for war first.

I assure you that I have. Lincoln did nothing outside the powers granted to him by the Militia Act and other legislation. There was no war, only rebellion.

460 posted on 08/21/2002 5:03:18 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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