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To: Non-Sequitur
Why should Lincoln's 'provocation' initiate a war unless Davis wanted one?

Do you expect that he should have simply sat back and let Lincoln invade?

They knew exactly what he was going to do, he had made it clear in speech after speech, it should have been no surprise.

Actually it was intended as a surprise. Lincoln promised Pickens a food-only mission, but sent a fleet of warships with other instructions knowing fully well that the southerners would not let them in the harbor. Beauregard caught word of it all and preempted the thing.

Yet you seem to believe that Davis, knowing all that, fell right into Lincoln's trap.

To the contrary. He preempted it.

"The North made us do it."

If by that you mean defending one's home territory, yes, it was provoked by Lincoln.

So why Sumter? Are you suggesting that the confederacy would have collapsed and died without it?

I think that is a better question for you to be asking yourself. Why Sumter? Are you suggesting that the union had to have a fort in the middle of a foreign harbor hundreds of miles away?

Davis couldn't have waited Lincoln out?

Had he done so Lincoln would have arrived a day later to fight his way in. Acting when he did was the best way to ensure the least casualties from seizing the fort on either side, and it worked as the casualties of the battle were zero.

286 posted on 08/15/2002 4:27:18 AM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
Actually it was intended as a surprise. Lincoln promised Pickens a food-only mission, but sent a fleet of warships with other instructions knowing fully well that the southerners would not let them in the harbor.

This is substantially incorrect. More later.

Walt

288 posted on 08/15/2002 4:44:52 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: GOPcapitalist
Do you expect that he should have simply sat back and let Lincoln invade?

But Lincoln wasn't invading. There were Federal troops in Sumter to begin with. How would the addition of a few hundred more posed a threat to the confederacy?

Actually it was intended as a surprise.

Is that why Lincoln sent Robert Chew to Governor Pickens on April 6 with a letter announcing his intention to resupply Sumter, but reinforcements would not be landed unless opposed? Kind of ruins the surprise, doesn't it?

To the contrary. He preempted it.

He acted with full knowledge of what firing on Sumter meant. He knew it meant war. He was prepared to accept that.

If by that you mean defending one's home territory, yes, it was provoked by Lincoln.

Sumter wasn't the confederacy's 'home territory'. It was a facility owned and occupied by the Federal government. It belonged to them.

I think that is a better question for you to be asking yourself. Why Sumter? Are you suggesting that the union had to have a fort in the middle of a foreign harbor hundreds of miles away?

But it wasn't in a foreign harbor. It was in the harbor of a city of the United States.

Had he done so Lincoln would have arrived a day later to fight his way in. Acting when he did was the best way to ensure the least casualties from seizing the fort on either side, and it worked as the casualties of the battle were zero.

If he had waited Lincoln would have reprovisioned the fort and the stand-off would have continued and a negotiated settlement might have been reached. Even if Lincoln had gone against his letter and landed the 200 or so soldiers the fleet had with them then the stalemate would have continued and a negotiated settlement might have been reached. Acting when he did was the best way for Davis to ensure a war. Far from zero casualties as a result of Sumter, there were hundreds of thousands.

289 posted on 08/15/2002 5:06:23 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: GOPcapitalist
Actually it was intended as a surprise. Lincoln promised Pickens a food-only mission, but sent a fleet of warships with other instructions knowing fully well that the southerners would not let them in the harbor.

This is false.

"A special messenger, said Lincoln, was going down to give Governor Pickens due notice, and to tell him that no troops would be landed if the delivery of the provisions be not opposed; the messenger, said the president, would reach Charlston long before Fox could get there...Table stakes in other words. Sending the outrider down to Governor Pickens, Lincoln was shooting the works. He was not forcing a war, but he was serving notice that he would fight rather than back down; more, he was setting the stage in such a way that Jefferson Davis, if he in his turn preferred to fight rather than to back down, would have to shoot first....On April 8 a War Department clerk named Robert S. Chew showed up in Charleston bearing instructions writen by President Lincoln which read thus:

"You will proceed directly to Charleston, South Carolina; and if, on your arrival there, the flag of the United States shall be flying over over Fort Sumter, and the Fort shall not have been attacked, you will procure an interview with Governor Pickens, and read to him as follows:

"I am directed by the president of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms or ammunitin will be maewithout further notice, or in case of attack upon the fort.

Chew delivered his message that evening".--"The Coming Fury" pp. 299-303 by Bruce Catton.

So you'd be lying.

Walt

343 posted on 08/15/2002 8:23:50 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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