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To: knighthawk; a_Turk
How do Turkish Muslims regard the Kuranic passages mentioned by knighthawk which figure so heavily in radical Islamic theories?
18 posted on 08/09/2002 6:57:47 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
I'm kinda busy, but since you're asking.. The various commercially available translations of the Koran are not all properly done. Most are done having ulterior motives in mind. These translations provided above are no exception:

Koran, Sura 3:110

Translation given here:
Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.>/u>
replace the underlined with:
there are faithful among them, but many have turned to sin.

Koran, Sura 8:65 (this Sura is named "AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY)")

Translation given here:
O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.
Context: going back a few verses one notices that the subject is resisting persecution and enslavement. Koranic e.g. in the same Sura: the Exodus of the Jews.

Koran, Sura 9:5

Translation given here:
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
replace the underlined with:
when the bad moons arrive (when hard times are upon you)

Context:
Going back one verse: Do not harm those pagans who are at peace with you. Keep the word you give them. God loves those who abstain.

So what is said is that if the peace is broken by the pagan, then he's toast. Otherwise leave him be.

Koran, Sura 9:29

Translation given here:
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
replace the underlined with:
were given the books (Jews, Christians, and today Muslims) yet do not believe in God and judgement day, and practice sin,

And this goes on and on with all the quotes here.

I just ignore the Hadith, it's adulterated and contradicts the Koran. It is not "the book."

hope this helps.
19 posted on 08/09/2002 7:55:31 AM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Travis McGee
The koran is used is found at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA
and it contains 3 different translations:

3:110
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.

9:29
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

These translations can be found at various islamic sites made by muslims for other muslims.

http://alquran.yarsi.ac.id

3:110
You are the best nation ever to be brought forth for people. You order honor and forbid dishonor, and you believe in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it would have surely been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are evildoers.

9:29
Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth, being among those who have been given the Book (Bible and the Torah), until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated.

http://www.factpress.com/quran.php
This one also has got the Arabic verses alongside the English one:

3:110
Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.

9:29
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/index.html

3.111 (which is in this translation 3.110)

You are the best people raised for the good of mankind; you enjoin good and forbid evil and believe in ALLAH. And if the People of the Book had believed, it would have, surely, been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are transgressors.

9.29
Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in ALLAH, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what ALLAH and HIS Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection.

This is the translation by E. H. Palmer:

3.110
Ye were the best of nations brought forth unto man. Ye bid what is reasonable, and forbid what is wrong, believing in God. Had the people of the Book believed, it would have been better for them. There are believers among them, though most of them are sinners.

9:29
Fight those who believe not in God and in the last day, and who forbid not what God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who do not practice the religion of truth from amongst those to whom the Book has been brought, until they pay the tribute by their hands and be as little ones.
20 posted on 08/09/2002 1:42:01 PM PDT by knighthawk
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