Linux Waddles from Obscurity to the Big Time

USA Today ^ | August 5, 2002 | Byron Acohido

[ShadowAce]

SEATTLE -- When investment bank Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein began making the switch to the Linux computer operating system in 1999, it did so to save money.

The Germany-based bank sought a less-costly way to calculate risks associated with its portfolio of investments. So it replaced 32 computer servers, based on the time-tested Unix operating systems, at an average cost of $50,000 each, with 40 Linux servers, at $3,000 a pop.

[Red Jones]

penguin ping!

[general_re]

Actually it doesn't surprise me at all. While it is true that Linux (and FreeBSD) tend to be substantially faster for compute intensive functions on the same hardware compared to Windows or commercial Unix variants...

Depends on the function, really. For super-large DB stuff, I'm inclined to be very skeptical of Linux performance - it still just doesn't scale very well. No true asynchronous I/O, most block I/O is done under a single spinlock, et cetera, et cetera. Most of that stuff is supposedly fixed in the 2.5 kernel, but that's still in beta...

[bvw]

Unix/Linux/cheap hardware -- more shops should at least make some representative system test vis-a-vis big label unix and linux. Maybe the number$ gained would break the old upper-managment lock against software not supported by a company of over 200 million in sales in each of the trailing five years, or whatever comparable silly lockouts some major enterprises have against well-established PD packages such as linux, perl, et al.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[general_re]

I agree, insofar as my own philosophy is "the right tool for the right job" - Linux definitely has a place in the world. But that's not the same as saying it's right everywhere - Linux as a replacement for the Windows desktops of the world is an awfully elusive goal, and on the other end, it's not ready for prime-time in the world of really big iron.

Notice I'm not talking supercomputing, but rather traditional mainframes. The advantage that mainframes have always had is not in raw computing power, but rather in their tremendous I/O throughput - to use another technical measurement, their ability to move a s***load of bits from 'A' to 'B', and do it really, really fast. ;)

Which Linux just can't really do well yet. Maybe soon, but not today.

[bvw]

As far as can tell right now what locks MS on the desktop is two things -- Word and Power Point. Those two are needed in so many unavoidable places -- school, work, g-ment -- and the work-alikes are not good enough.

The Word work-alikes always seem to be one or two MS versions behind and the variances are usually a big nuisance -- especially to the "basic level users" one usually has to sell to or deal with. I'm surprised that there is no good -- as far as I know -- Power Point substitute.

[Bush2000]

You forgot games.

[Stuck in Arkansas]

[bvw]

The games are nice, but as to what locks MS on the desktop it is, IMO, Word and PowerPoint. You simply need to have them on an MS platform to do business. It makes MS-Windows and Office a compelled sale.

After those two I'd count Lotus Notes as another reason many are strongly motivated to MS Windows. Is there a linux version of Lotus Notes compatible wih the MS-windows version?

[ShadowAce]

Is there a linux version of Lotus Notes compatible wih the MS-windows version?

Well, it's more Outlook-ish, but Ximian Evolution is very full-featured and nice. Contacts, calendar, etc.

BTW--OpenOffice and StarOffice pretty much have caught up to MS Office. I use OpenOffice at work, which is exclusively MS Office. No one knows the difference, and I've been able to open, read, and edit Word and Excel files (even with macros).

[bvw]

In my humble opinion, the strength of the mainframes is in a fossil-like stability, and a priesthood of mainframe developers. That means that aps on mainframes work reliably. It has zilch to do with data throughput.

Unix aps are always in development -- not talking the basic unix tools which are fairly stable -- just the aps. Everyone knows they can get radical changes from unix aps and there are zillions of programmers to do it. The Mainframe priesthood is well-learned in the techniques of rebutting anything but a little change here and a little change there.

The consequences are that unix aps look more quirky and unreliable in managemnet outage summary reports. Mainframes are low outage.

[bvw]

What versions?

[ShadowAce]

It has zilch to do with data throughput.

well, when you can get a UNIX box to process 162 million transactions every night, let me know. I worked in mainframe shop (still do) that did that (several years ago). Took it less than 8 hours every night.

While you may be right about the stability and maturity of the code, the real strength is the throughput.

[CharacterCounts]

Show me how to use StarOffice to create a template with a header that includes two stripes running vertically down the page at the left margin and a text box with my name and address printed at a 90 degree angle to the left of that margin (legal pleading paper) and then when the user creates a document using the template automatically open a user form filling in all of the bookmarks in the document based on the users reponse to questions in the userform and I will be convinced that StarOffice is as good as MSWord.

[ShadowAce]

Office 2000

[MonroeDNA]

It runs LabView quite well, and doesn't crash anywhere near as much as MS OS (name your poison).

I design and build industrial equipment, meant to run 24/7/365, and MS sucks horribly. I'm making the switch.

Aside from sound engineering aspects, MS licensing is a tax on our productivity, frankly.

Bill let the rudder go free. Marketing weenies are going to sink his company.

It happens to all decent companies--once the been counters and marketing weenies take hold, it's all down hill.

The "rent a license and renew" program at MS will go down as one of the stupidest mistakes a company made in history.

And I am just a user, not a IS guy or whatever.

But I pay people who use what I tell them to use.

Bye, MS!

[ShadowAce]

Tell you what. I'm not terribly familiar with templates. I just don't use them. If you would agree to send me a copy of the one you are talking about, I can let you know how it goes.

[CharacterCounts]

Not necessary. It can't.

[tortoise]

The games are nice, but as to what locks MS on the desktop it is, IMO, Word and PowerPoint. You simply need to have them on an MS platform to do business. It makes MS-Windows and Office a compelled sale.

VMWare. The best of both worlds.

[AaronAnderson]

I think Sun is more concerned with hardware sales due to cheap x86 hardware and the new 64 bit processors coming out than losing Solaris marketshare, which is free. Infact, Solaris 9 is very similar to Linux, in the fact that it bundles OS software like SSH, Samba, and the apache web server as well as ofering full linux binary compatibility with lxrun. Sun is also going to release their own flavor of Linux for their cobalt servers and maybe resurrect Solaris on the x86. I don't know if they can bet linux/x86 on price/performance, but it seems they have been focusing on scalability and reliability as well as management capabilities that Linux is behind in now.