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To: Lorianne
So, if the government didn't create an "escape route" for irresponsible men as well as irresponsible women who co-create a child, and required BOTH parents to support and care for their kids we'd have far fewer irresponsible people overall.

I acknowledged the obvious in my previous post. Yes, this creates an irresponsible attitude in men as well. Consider, however, that the image that you are portraying is that of a "couple". Too often these women are impregnated by a "boyfriend" who has several other women on the line and are not willing to or just will not commit to a relationship with one, be it inside or outside of marriage. If they are in an exclusive relationship, too often it's just about sex anyway. Women who allow themselves into these kinds of relationships have a lot of issues, but subconciously or even conciously, they want to have a baby because their lives are devoid of a deep and meaningful relationship and they want someone to love them. Notice I didn't say they wanted someone to love, but rather they want to feel the joy of someone who cherishes them. But, that is unfair to a child as that twisted thinking is unhealthy for everyone and a cycle is continued. Boys throughout their lives, but especially in the adolescent and teen years, learn to be men by the influence of the men in their lives. If their only example of a man is someone who comes to service their mother on occasion, guess what? The cycle continues for them as well.

So I lay the blame on women because they are ultimately responsible for their ability to reproduce. Okay, men can wear a condom, but why do you think sexually transmitted diseases are on the rise despite increased awareness and the availability and free access of said items?

Too often these women they will continue to have a small child in the home so that they won't be taken off welfare. Yes, they continually have children outside of marriage, to collect welfare (don't tell me that this is not the reason as I've met many of these women). But I will say this, the safety net of welfare also exists because it is extremely difficult for women to get off of welfare as they don't have job skills, they don't have daycare, they don't have medical insurance. Many times it's because they are drug addicts or they don't know life with structure as they've never had it, or seen it. Thus we have kids who are entering gangs because there is a sense of belonging and it's a way to survive.

9 posted on 08/11/2002 7:08:22 AM PDT by WellsFargo94
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To: WellsFargo94
So I lay the blame on women because they are ultimately responsible for their ability to reproduce. Okay, men can wear a condom, but why do you think sexually transmitted diseases are on the rise despite increased awareness and the availability and free access of said items?

There it is in its full glory. I knew it was coming. Blatant bigotry. Sexism. "Boys will be boys" and we should just let them. Males are ultimately NOT responsible even though everyone knows biologically how babies are made.

You know what, until we drop that BS nothing will change. Either BOTH parents are responsible for chidlren they co-create, or no one is. Period.

And I agree kids need a father. However, only a father can render a child "fatherless". If he's not there, HE is responsible for not being there for his kids! What you are trying to do (again) is make women responsible not only for her own actions, but men's actions as well. Well guess what, most women are there. Present and accounted for. If the father is NOT there, he is responsible for his own abscence and his own abandonment of his own kids. Not one else is responsible for a person being a.w.o.l. except that person. So once again this is using illogic to to excuse men.

So much for Conservatives believing in personal responsibility. What part of "personal" don't they grasp? When push comes to shove and we have to face real facts, all of a sudden it always comes down to blaming women unilaterally for conception. Even in the face of science which proves this is not true! How far are we willing to go to give men a free pass on responsibility? Refute biology?

We (society) could decide to make both parents equally responsible for children they co-create, but we don't. This is nothing short of immoral and it certainly doesn't help children. Maybe we are lying about wanting to help children? Maybe what's more important to us is to let one of the parents off the hook or more importantly, to demonize women unilaterally.

Also this is the same exact logic that people in some parts of the world are using to bury a woman up to her waist and stone her for adultery (as evidenced by a child) while letting the other party, the man, go unpunished. It's sexism pure and simple, different only by degree. The logic is exactly the same, yet we think of ourselves as so superior to these cultures.

Many times it's because they are drug addicts.

So? So are many of the fathers. What's your point? And of course, WHY would a man procreate with drug addict? Could it be because he is irresponsible and just doesn't give a damn about the consequences of his actions? And why should he care when he knows society refuses to hold him equally accountable?

You seem to grasp that there is a cycle going on here but you cling onto the age-old fallacy of men as innocent bystanders in procreation and therefore blameless in the consequences.

We cannot solve a problem by refusing to face up to half of the reasons why it exists.

10 posted on 08/11/2002 2:31:19 PM PDT by Lorianne
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