Judge orders names of all detainees in 9/11 probe released

MSNBC ^

[mathurine]

I'm pretty old and no frigging judge ever ruled in favor of anyone because of age; so let's dismiss that issue from the present conversation. She is ugly, and I am handsome. That's the breaks. Genetics. Fate. Who can say. So she's old and ugly and I am old and handsome. That leaves the issue of stupid. I believe she is rather stupid for a person who graduated from college. Maybe back then she smiled better and got socially promoted.

[mathurine]

I'm pretty old and no frigging judge ever ruled in favor of anyone because of age; so let's dismiss that issue from the present conversation. She is ugly, and I am handsome. That's the breaks. Genetics. Fate. Who can say. So she's old and ugly and I am old and handsome. That leaves the issue of stupid. I believe she is rather stupid for a person who graduated from college. Maybe back then she smiled better and got socially promoted.

[carenot]

Well, then you are nice.

[hchutch]

Possible, but there is the uncertainty. There is also the possibility of sleeper cells who hide by simply doing nothing. Heck, we know that DEMOCRATS can do that, so it's not too hard to think that these al-Qaida creeps can as well.

The thing is, they probably know who is in what cell, which cities, and what their targets would be. But if they remain in the dark as to which cells are rolled up and which ones are out there, we might be able to force them to talk a little more on cell phones, which NSA can pick up, we can then send an armed Predator or a fighter with a laser-guided bomb to make the al-Qaida creep a GOOD al-Qaida person.

If it can help us take out the guys who would give the "go" codes for other operations, I think we have to do it.

[Amerigomag]

Personal freedom is what I believe we have a right to

Persoal freedom is neither a constitutional nor God given right. It is a responsibility.

Neither you nor my fellow citizens nor my government are resposible for my personal rights. I alone am responsible.

It is my responsibilty to act in a manner that safeguards my rights. To be vigilent and dilegent and guard my rights jealously. It is my responsibilty to act in a manner that will cause others to respect my rights.

I am comfortable with the manner in which George Bush and John Ashcroft are protecting our collective personal rights.

[Amerigomag]

collective personal rights

The reference was corporate. The administrations' responsibility are corporate as mine are individual.

[FreeTheHostages]

Hey, I was following you. God Bless Ashcroft.

[exodus]

To: exodus
This kid's family was in Pakistan. He was held incommunicado. He understood perfectly why he had been caught in the dragnet. And we joked about how much worse it would have been if he had been picked up in Pakistan itself. He shrugged it off and blamed the jihadis not the USG.
# 132 by swarthyguy

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I’m glad your friend was innocent, and that he was set free.

[swarthyguy]

>I’m glad your friend was innocent, and that he was set free.

You were expecting something else, maybe?

Didn't surprise him and didn't surprise me. If they had a valid reason to throw him out, i'm sure they would have.

[exodus]

To: exodus; carenot
The two of you ought to Kumbaya yourselves over to CAIR. You're also clueless; the Justice Department can tie this up for the next two years, if it wants to, with appeals. And, it wants to.
# 127 by sinkspur # 132 by swarthyguy

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The Justice Department could just ignore the order.
President Bush doesn’t have to appeal anything.

An Executive Order trumps any judicial opinion.
How many troops does the Court have?

[exodus]

“This is not about foreign nationals; this is about our freedom. The secret trials were not limited to “foreign” terrorists. Anyone classified as a "terrorist" is subject to secret trial, and "terrorist" has been given a new, very loose definition.

If this were about foreign nationals, I would be complaining about the secrecy still. Secret trials are not part of a free, just society.
# 198 by exodus

To: exodus
Well, you can quit complaining then, there haven't been any. 200 by jwalsh07
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There haven’t been any secret trials?
LOL

How would you know, jwalsh07??

[Tailback]

How do they know an operative is missing? When he doesn't return emails? Answer phone calls? I'm sure the FBI doesn't have anyone that can speak or write Arabic.

[exodus]

To: carenot; tomahawk; exodus
The sixth doesn't apply; they haven't been charged wit a crime. They are being held as material witnesses.

If you have a gripe, it’s with the material witness law.

I don't have a gripe. If any of these "good fellows" are wrongly held, they can be compensated. In the meantime, they can do situps and pushups.
# 111 by jwalsh07

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Potential witnesses are just one class of prisoner. Even a “witness” has the protection of the Constitution against governmental abuse.

The 6th Amendment does apply. Secret arrests are prohibited. An arrest without a warrant is illegal.

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

[exodus]

To: carenot
How do they know an operative is missing? When he doesn't return emails? Answer phone calls? I'm sure the FBI doesn't have anyone that can speak or write Arabic.
# 213 by Tailback

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If the terroristic “operator” disappears for no sanctioned reason, the organization would have to assume that he had been both apprehended and compromised.

People don’t just disappear. Any investigation is “compromised” as soon as the organization loses track of it’s member. Any plan that member knew of, any operation, would be modified to prevent the information he had effecting the operation.

Having our government keep the arrest secret doesn’t help any investigation.

[exodus]

"...However, if someone comes in and says, “I can’t find my husband!”
- exodus

To: exodus
You think their lawyer forgot to tell the wife his client was in the hoosegow?
Where do you guys get this crap?
126 by jwalsh07
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"Secret" doesn't mean "only lawyers know." Secret is secret, unless you need me to explain what "is" means.

If the arrestee has a lawyer, it's only because the government chose to allow it.

[swarthyguy]

I honestly don't know why you're so worked up about these guys. If they find ONE nugget of information, or break up ONE plot, or find ONE scumbag, murdering jihadi, it'll be worth it. That's how the world works. If it takes 10,000 detainees to accomplish that task, more power and credit to the agents living on short sleep and coiled emotions.

Instead of spending your time railing against the USG, why don't you focus some of your energy on the slime who perpetrated theses atrocities on the USA and continue to do so all around the world at an unending, horrendous pace notable for its savagery and bloodthirstiness.

[swarthyguy]

>How many troops does the Court have?

As many as Eisenhower wanted to call out to enforce the Brown decision in the 50's.

[swarthyguy]

>There haven’t been any secret trials?
LOL

How would you know, jwalsh07??


That's why they're secret trials, wink, wink. Kafkaesque, eh? Wonder if they ever found out what they were on trial for.

[swarthyguy]

>Having our government keep the arrest secret doesn’t help any investigation.

Repeating inanities again. Yes it does. We dupe the bad guys. We feed them bad info once they get emails and fonecalls from their mudering jihadi brethren. We track those calls and emails. We confuse the hell out of the foreign puppetmasters, or even their local ones.

Why you so concerned about them anyway?