Kidnapped girls were raped

ABC News | 8/2/2002 | ABC News

[Gigantor]

Reports coming in that both girls were sexually assualted.

[hole_n_one]

Check your FRail.

[Age of Reason]

Bad parallel, dude. How many survivors were there on Flight 93?

Survival isn't everything.

[dwills]

GummyIII gets my point--there will be no trial and only the authorities and the media had every opportunity not to release the news that the girls were raped.

My post took no issue with the reporting of the girls identities and pictures when their recovery was the objective, only with Larry King sharing with the public Bill Lockyear's (dem, I think, CA AG) gossip during the break that the girls were raped. Particularly his shameless gruesome follow up question--"so, while he's raping one what did he do with the other . . . tie her up or something?"

Isn't that a nice picture to offer up to the high school companions of girls who didn't ask to be public figures? I personally don't advocate having my tax dollars go to claims against the state unless it's behavior is particularly venial. Maybe they can just take it out of CNN and Lockyear's personal hide.

[Timesink]

Everyone just be calm and ask " What would Clinton have done?"

Offered to team up with the perp? After all, Willard must be fed!

[jamaly]

Agreed, except that each individual can control their exposure to that predator by THEY'RE OWN choices.

How many people here are actually endorsing permitting a 17- or 16-year-old being out at 1am+, and parking behind a petrol storage farm?

The vast majority of young people will go to "Lover's Lane" at some time in their lives. I don't approve of being out at 1 a.m. either; but, it wasn't a school night and the time of day or night doesn't necessarily put you in more danger. More than 40 years ago my sister was on Lover's Lane about 10 p.m. drinking a milk shake and talking with her boyfriend. Both were fully clothed! Two armed thugs came up to the car, shot & killed her boyfriend and brutally raped her.

Did her boyfriend deserve to be murdered or did my sister deserve to be raped? I don't think so. Were my parents good parents? ABSOLUTELY! Our whole family has been emotionally scared for more than 40 years now. My sister had nightmares until she died. I'm sure these girls parents are going to feel guilty and the entire family will suffer because of these rapes for years and years to come.

Do you think you could find a little compassion and sympathy in your heart or are just as much an animal as the rapist?

[Brad’s Gramma]

NO girl or woman deserves to be raped, assaulted or physically harmed. Nor, any boy or man.

Yes they were careless. Gosh darn, we ALL are every day of our lives. Doesn't change a thing.

Parents can do whatever they want, but if a teenager WANTS to get out he/she's gonna do it.

Parents should ALSO have the freedom TO discipline, I won't at ALL argue with you in that.

I stand by what I said earlier. They do NOT deserve to be hurt. (or however I worded it) They DO deserve to be kids. They DO deserve to do goofy teenage things.

We, as a society, have let down our kids. We'd better take it back before it's too late.

[Age of Reason]

Anyway, if these guys weren't dating the girls, and just screwing around with them, they obviously would be much less likely to put their own lives on the line for them

If--IF--those kids were doing what some kids do at lovers lane so late--you may have hit upon an interesting aspect of human nature.

But I won't go there here.

[hole_n_one]

From tonight's Larry King show........

KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. Sheriff Carl Sparks of Kern County, California is on his way here and will be joining us shortly. Here in the Los Angeles studio is Bill Lockyer, the attorney general of the state of California. In San Francisco is Marc Klaas, whose 12-year-old daughter Polly was abducted from her home and murdered nine years ago, a parole felon, Richard Allen Davis, convicted in that case. He is sentenced to death. And Marc founded Klaas Kids Foundation, an advocate for child protection and crime victims' rights.

And our regulars in New York, Nancy Grace, the anchor of "Trial Heat" on Court TV and former prosecutor. And here in Los Angeles, defense attorney Mark Geragos. We're going to spend some moments, though, with the attorney general Bill Lockyer, who told me, and I guess we might as well reveal it, the girls were raped?

BILL LOCKYER, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's what I'm informed by Sheriff Sparks' chief deputy, with whom...

KING: Who will be here, right?

LOCKYER: The sheriff will be here soon. But apparently there were sexual assaults for both girls.

KING: But they apparently are in good condition.

Full text and source is here

[Brad’s Gramma]

Regarding the media disclosing the personal "data"....I live out here and watched the press conference with the Sheriff. I don't recall his name. We SAW the one girl, in person, hugging her friends, crying, talking on the cell phone. They interviewed her parents. Actually, they did the other girl's dad, too. Mr. Brooks? There was no secrecy about anything.

We knew at that point that they were going to be taken to the hospital and be checked for rape.

I must have missed something with all the hoopla on this thread regarding the girl's conditions and media. Someone, direct me to the post? Please?

[hole_n_one]

See #148

[Timesink]

This is a serious point. It is not "blaming the victim" to say that the parents should not have allowed the girls to be out at 1 a.m.

Exactly. Questioning the common sense of both the parents and the kids themselves does not equal "blaming the victim." To use an extreme example: If a beautiful, busty 18-year-old girl broke into a prison rec area when it was full of inmates and started taking off her clothes, her chances of being raped would be 100% if the guards weren't paying attention. This would not excuse the rapists for their crimes, and they would end up serving a much longer sentence as a result of their actions. But at the same time, there is no moral or ethical reason why any of us shouldn't ask, "What the HELL was she THINKING?!?!?"

[Age of Reason]

NO girl or woman deserves to be raped, assaulted or physically harmed. Nor, any boy or man.

I never said anyone deserved that (on these forums, I've even defended the right of prisoners to be safe from such assault). I did point out that I didn't see anyone else say they deserved it, either.

Parents can do whatever they want, but if a teenager WANTS to get out he/she's gonna do it.

Parents need support in that regard--but in today's world, they too often get the opposite (smack your kid, and you can even land in jail).

Parents should ALSO have the freedom TO discipline, I won't at ALL argue with you in that.

We agree.

[dwills]

thx for exhibit A

here the precise quote from that:

"KING: How would you guess, Bill, that while raping one, what's happening to the other? You think he ties up one or we don't know yet?"

someone should freep to force larry to be fired or apologize

[Timesink]

We're going to spend some moments, though, with the attorney general Bill Lockyer, who told me, and I guess we might as well reveal it, the girls were raped?

Ooooh, Larry's going to be in for a very uncomfortable few days.

[On the Road to Serfdom]

Let's see. One minute your kissing your girl, the next someone bigger and stronger then you has an arm wrapped around your throat and a 9mm in your mouth. He's saying don't move and I won't hurt you. So your next move is...?

First, I did not mean to criticise them, only to point out they made the wrong move so others here can learn from this story and not do what they did.

Lets see, at that moment my next move would be to wait for a chance to run, even a small chance When I saw him pulling out duck tape I would yell "RUN" as I started running. If my girlfriend did not follow I would stop about 40 to 60 yards away and yell to her to run. The exact moves depend of factors such as the location of car keys, whether the girl(s) actally run, etc., whether I was 16 and unarmed or over 21 with CCW permit and gun.

I would not willingly let her get into the car with him and I would not willingly let him tape anyone up. If he would shoot you in the back for running then he is not just after your car and is only tying you up to rape/kill your girlfriend and possibly kill you. Don't overestimate the odds of him hitting a moving target in the dark with a handgun. Sure there is a risk of death if you run but there is a greater risk of death if you comply with the orders of such a person.

[dwills]

we agree on what's important, but i still feel guilty seeing that kid standing head and shoulders higher than the cop and thinking he should've done more

i guess we also agree that it's not our place to judge him as far as his reaction is concerned--though i'll join anyone in judging the wisdom of teenage behavior in the abstract, despite many failures when it was my turn

[Gigantor]

See my #6:

"News organizations have already released pictures and names - would not have done so if they knew they were raped..."

Oops, what I mean is some newscasts have been repeating their names ad infinitum, now hey are holding off from repeating the names.

[seeker41]

I have always been told never be forced into a vehicle and to fight like heck to avoid it. It is a death sentence in most cases. I'll take my chances fighting. The outcome is far superior to what a perp has in mind.

[cpdiii]

I have had the misfortune of looking down the wrong end of a
45 caliber "grease gun". If you start acting macho in that
situation you are either stupid or crazy. Only if you thought you are going to be killed would it be wise to attempt to overpower the man with the gun if you were not armed. You would probably lose but if you are going to be killed you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.