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To: knighthawk
"In Germany it is forbidden to deal, import, export deliver and buy drugs, punishable by a sentence of a maximum of 4 years. "

"In Germany usage of drugs is not illegal, but possession is. You will be arrested when possessing more than 10 grams in most districts. After conviction one may choose between jail and a program to get off drugs. "

You could be right. I thought the German Supreme Court overturned that law, but in effect, they just recommended police not to arrest people caught with small quantities.

http://www.ndsn.org/JULY94/GERMANY.html

"Hey, why don't you people come over here and enjoy the nice laws here. But don't go to Rotterdam, because there is a chance you might get kicked out, because there citizens took matters in their own hands and kicked out all the junks they could find."

What is a 'junks'? A junkie? That's typically slang for a heroin addict. Since I've never tried heroin in my life, that wouldn't apply to me. Seeing as they still have hundreds of coffeeshops there, they didn't do anything to the coffeeshops.

"Amsterdam may be nice. But don't go to 'de Bijlmer' at night. You will be mugged or shot just as quickly as in the worst parts of NY, while there only live less than a million people. How come Dutch cities, which are much smaller than US cities, are just as dangerous?"

Probably because you don't know much about US cities. Gary Indiana is one of the most dangerous US cities. Population 102,000. In fact, not one city in Colorado, not even Denver, has a million people. I don't have the data for that part of Amsterdam in murder rates, but Gary Indiana's murder rate was 59.4 people per 100,000 in 2000. I really doubt 'de Bijlmer' is higher than that.

"Ask the people in Rotterdam, where half the people feel so unsafe to go on the streets at evenings. "

I don't have the stats, but they sound like wusses to me. If you give me the stats, I can show you comparable cities over here whose streets that I've walked on in the evenings.

"Gee, it sounds like we in the Netherlands are doings something wrong, as there are four times a much murders in Amsterdam per 1000 citizens than in Rome."

Well, you have a long way to go before you beat many of the cities we have here. How does Amsterdam compare to London, Paris, Burssels, Berlin, Madrid, and Copenhagen?

383 posted on 08/01/2002 12:02:37 PM PDT by Nate505
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To: Nate505
On the ZDF (A German TV station) there was last week was a documantary about a police officer who's job it was to search besides the road for discarded cannabis. It were roads near the German border and junks throwed the cannabis out of the car when there was a suspected police check.

There are big differences in the German law and the Dutch one on drugs, like the Dutch differentiation on hard and soft drugs. The Germans complained in Brussels (EU 'capital') about the soft laws in the Netherlands, just as France did. And I think they are right about it.

On Rotterdam: during the local elections in May it was announced that 42% of the people felt unsafe to walk the streets at night (source Algemeen Dagblad and Dutch national TV). This played into the hands of Livable Rotterdam, which was a new party who too 32% of the votes.

The thing is that there should be no crime here anymore, at least according to the people who legalized the soft-drugs. They promised it, crime would be much less. But after 25 years of legalized drugs it is proven that the Netherlands have more crime than European countries who did not legalized drugs, like Austria (twice as much).

But the legistlators became very silent lately after all the stats came out on crime in the Netherlands. I wonder why.

Legislation is NOT the answer, the only ones who got a good deal are the junks, the coffee-shop owners and the organized crime.

"How does Amsterdam compare to London, Paris, Burssels, Berlin, Madrid, and Copenhagen?"

Nice you ask:
Last year Amsterdam was announced as 'the murder capital of the European Union' (taking the title from London)!

http://krant.telegraaf.nl/krant/archief/20010830/teksten/bin.moorden.hoofdstad.amsterdam.html

In Rome there are 1,22 murders/100.000 citizens, in Amsterdam 5,4.

"Well, you have a long way to go before you beat many of the cities we have here."

That's very true, it still is 9 times as less as Washington, having 50,82 and thereby is the 'murder capital of the world'. But in the Netherlands the Kurds and Turks (who contribute half of our murders) are working on it, ensuring that every year there are more drug-related murders.
447 posted on 08/01/2002 2:20:56 PM PDT by knighthawk
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