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Why I Am a Free Market Fundamentalist
LFET ^ | Tibor R. Machan

Posted on 07/31/2002 5:35:10 PM PDT by Sir Gawain

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1 posted on 07/31/2002 5:35:11 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Victoria Delsoul; tpaine; OWK; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Mercuria; MadameAxe; redrock; Sabertooth; ...
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2 posted on 07/31/2002 5:35:22 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sir Gawain
Why should democracy, for example, be allowed to limit our economic liberty?

without economic liberty, there is no other liberty. once your capital (private property) is controled, what else is there to control?

thanks for posting this article.

3 posted on 07/31/2002 6:25:28 PM PDT by mlocher
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To: Sir Gawain
I agree and Democracy needs to go as well.
4 posted on 07/31/2002 8:15:06 PM PDT by weikel
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To: Sir Gawain
Bump.
5 posted on 08/01/2002 9:13:33 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
bump back.
6 posted on 08/01/2002 9:14:24 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sir Gawain
But in the history of human economic life it is obvious that freedom is not only more productive, more efficient than the alternative of government regulation and planning, but it is also more suited to human nature, which is creative and productive when not crushed by tyranny, be it of the democratic, monarchical or single party type.

Under the market anarchy that Mr. Machan seems to be advocating, property rights would not exist.

 "A right of property in moveable things is admitted before the establishment of government. A separate property in lands, not till after that establishment. The right to moveables is acknowledged by all the hordes of Indians surrounding us. Yet by no one of them has a separate property in lands been yielded to individuals. He who plants a field keeps possession till he has gathered the produce, after which one has as good a right as another to occupy it. Government must be established and laws provided, before lands can be separately appropriated, and their owner protected in his possession. Till then, the property is in the body of the nation, and they, or their chief as trustee, must grant them to individuals, and determine the conditions of the grant."

 --Thomas Jefferson: Batture at New Orleans, 1812. ME 18:45


7 posted on 08/01/2002 9:40:41 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
Weird. - Jefferson is talking about how some american indian 'nations' viewed property rights in land.

What do you see as the connection to the article?
8 posted on 08/01/2002 10:03:02 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
What do you see as the connection to the article?

The author of this article claims to be a "market fundamentalist", and yearns for an ideal society where individual sovereignty reigns unimpeded by the "tyranny" of government. He does so in the extreme, even to the point of demonizing democratic forms of government.

Yet, unless the author desires a market as primitive as that practiced by stone-age, Native-American tribes, he ignores that a more advanced definition of property rights are necessary for development of modern market economies. And as Jefferson so eloquently points out "Government must be established and laws provided... and determine the conditions of the grant" advance socio-economic development can occur.

Jefferson also provides more widely known commentary on this issue: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

In his denunciation of democracy, the author ignores this Jeffersonian Truth, and myopicly undercuts the foundation upon which the conditions of property rights are established.

9 posted on 08/02/2002 9:46:49 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
I think you are misquoting Jeffersons 1812 comment to pick a bone on a point the author never made.

There is no mention of 'property rights' in the threads article that I can see. Can you?
10 posted on 08/02/2002 10:10:46 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
There is no mention of 'property rights' in the threads article that I can see. Can you?

You don't think "property rights" have anything to do with capitalism and "market fundamentalism"???

11 posted on 08/02/2002 10:51:21 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
Thanks again for YOUR postings and COMMENTS, Willie!!!!!!
12 posted on 08/02/2002 10:54:57 AM PDT by maestro
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To: maestro
And I thank YOU for such a supportive reply!!!
13 posted on 08/02/2002 11:13:53 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: maestro
You know, the logic, clarity and wisdom of Jefferson's philosophy on these issues never ceases to amaze me.
We are truly fortunate to have had him as such an influential presence at the founding of our great nation!!!
14 posted on 08/02/2002 11:24:34 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Sir Gawain
The innumerable government regulations already on the books and now being proposed not only seem not to be able to wipe out occasional business mal-practice but constitute a kind of democratic lynch mob action, this time on the futile grounds of precaution or prevention. By that argument the very idea of innocent until proven otherwise could be tossed and the creeping totalitarianism of police states unleashed. (Moreover, proponents of this idea are naïve in holding that regulators are immune to corruption!)

See this every day around here...losers want thought-job protection---promotions too!

15 posted on 08/02/2002 11:42:41 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: Willie Green
Government must be established and laws provided, before lands can be separately appropriated, and their owner protected in his possession. Till then, the property is in the body of the nation, and they, or their chief as trustee, must grant them to individuals, and determine the conditions of the grant."

Excellent. Reality is not what some imagine. This idea of public property is at the core of many of our arguments on FR. Probably 99% don't 'get' it. Some will wave the Constitution like a magic wand while displaying the 9th amendment and ignoring the 4th and 5th Amendments, which doesn't help at all.

Keep chipping away at it. Now and then a light will go on, and maybe the 99% will drop to 98%.

Perhaps if it had wheels.

16 posted on 08/02/2002 11:51:30 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Willie Green
Creation/God...Christianity---secular-govt.-humanism/SCIENCE---CIVILIZATION!

Originally the word liberal meant social conservatives(no govt religion--none) who advocated growth and progress---mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality... UNDER GOD---the nature of GOD/man/govt. does not change. These were the Classical liberals...founding fathers-PRINCIPLES---stable/SANE scientific reality/society---industrial progress...moral/social character-values(private/personal) GROWTH

17 posted on 08/02/2002 11:51:50 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: Willie Green
Your#14).................Amen!!
18 posted on 08/02/2002 11:59:46 AM PDT by maestro
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To: f.Christian
Your#17)...................Amen!!
19 posted on 08/02/2002 12:00:37 PM PDT by maestro
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To: RightWhale
Reality is not what some imagine. This idea of public property is at the core of many of our arguments on FR. Probably 99% don't 'get' it.

Yes, many narcissisticly assume that property rights are a given, and government only exists to protect those rights without any obligation on their part to contribute to the community which forms that government.

Jefferson refutes that assumption much more eloquently than I.

20 posted on 08/02/2002 12:26:15 PM PDT by Willie Green
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