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1 posted on 07/31/2002 2:18:26 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: summer; Howlin; Miss Marple; mombonn; DallasMike; austinTparty; MHGinTN; RottiBiz; WaterDragon; ...
Pinging the Sullivan list.
2 posted on 07/31/2002 2:19:17 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
It's a relief not to see the president of the United States popping up like a jack-in-the-box at every two-bit, fleabag mini-event.

He's still at it. Why won't he just go away?

5 posted on 07/31/2002 2:34:50 PM PDT by stanz
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To: Pokey78
It's nice to see a liberal take on Gephardt, Daschle, and Begala.
6 posted on 07/31/2002 2:43:49 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Pokey78
It's a relief not to see the president of the United States popping up like a jack-in-the-box at every two-bit, fleabag mini-event.

Hmmmmmm....but, but ...what about expresidents???


7 posted on 07/31/2002 2:47:29 PM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Pokey78
Bush's speechwriters finally found the right vocabulary and cadence for him, but I still quail when I listen to him, as some malapropism is bound to occur.

Hmmmmm...seems President Bush's speeches of Sept/Oct/Dec 2001, his Feb 2002 SOTU, etc comforted and energized the American populace. Seems Camille has been waiting since summer of 2001...isn't she exhausted from all that quailing?


8 posted on 07/31/2002 2:53:01 PM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Pokey78
...and political skirmishes haven't been skillfully managed. Camille Paglia regarding Bush WH in 2002
This is a bit too much Inside Homosexuality for me but they are thinking people at least.
I keep on waiting for Bush to unbutton his shirtsleeves and say, Okay, Daschle; Okay, Gephardt. Get Schumer, Leahy, that bull dyke Clinton and that poofter Waxman and come outside! I'm gonna open a fresh can of WhupAss. Line 'em up, boys, 'cos daddy's gonna knock 'em down!
But it doesn't happen...
Very sad.
10 posted on 07/31/2002 2:56:31 PM PDT by thegreatbeast
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To: Pokey78
Three decades of the nihilist left slowly eroding our universities and public discourse didn't seem to have wrought too much havoc among the people who really matter. I know many young students whose heads are filled with nonsense at universities, but within a few years, they seem to regain their moral and intellectual bearings. It's an awful waste of what should be the best years of your life, but not irreparable.

Real life does have a tendency to put leftist "academic" theory in perspective.

13 posted on 07/31/2002 3:20:46 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Pokey78
What a great read.

I was sitting in Billy's Roadhouse eating wings and slugging down a Rolling Rock after work today, thinking about some of the things touched on in this interview.

Paglia and Sullivan talk about the polarization of politics again. The phrasing that came to me while I was eating was that it is a wholehearted embracing of demagoguery and propaganda as acceptable replacements for actual thought. This is of particular concern to me, who finds myself stuck in the middle of two very polarized former-allies turned bitter enemies: libertarians and conservatives.

I have long described myself as a libertarian leaning conservative. That is an intentionally ambiguous phrase. Am I a libertarian, leaning conservative, or a conservative who is libertarian leaning? My mere existence on Free Republic has been minimized due to an unbelievable polarization of these groups. There is no middle ground, I am on an island with very few other inhabitants.

If one loads up the latest posts page, one is innundated with posts that can best be described as propaganda. We are living in a Nazi State! George W. Bush has channeled George Orwell. Civil liberties are nearing extinction! And on the other side, a belief that we are wasting valuable resources fighting pot is met with allegations of being a dopehead, and arguing that we might want to slow down and make sure that we are going after only the guilty and not rushing to judgement becomes aiding and abetting the terrorists.

I am particularly disturbed by the side that my libertarian sensibilities would normally align itself with. The sheer audacity of the claims and rhetoric is breathtaking, and is particularly self-defeating in my eyes. Libertarianism is supposed to appeal to a person's reason and rationality, and when we see self-described libertarians engaging in propaganda that would make Goebbels proud all it does is discredit libertarian thought; truly if it was a mindset based in reason and able to withstand critical thought then it would not rely on cheap lies and emotional appeals. People notice this, it strikes them when they read that crap how inherently wrong it is, and it drives people away.

I invite all libertarian leaning people and conservatives to check out the position statement of the RLC posted in that forum. Surely, that is what we should be leading with. It isn't the be all and end all (to truly get conservative leaning folks like me on board 100% it should recognize the right to life, for example) but it sure is the way to appeal to the minds of people in a way that is consistent and not going to make them feel as if someone is trying to manipulate and lie to them, the way that half the crap that gets posted (and cheered!) nowadays does.

Once upon a time, the Republicans nominated a libertarian leaning conservative who was dealt a really bad hand (a nation recovering from the assassination of a president, who just happened to be from the opposing party). This man was wise and told us extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice no virtue. As with other quotations over time, the meaning of this has been twisted. Extremism in the pursuit of political gain is no virtue. Moderation in defense of liberty and truth and integrity is no vice. As he once also famously said, "let's grow up, conservatives", and that includes my libertarian leaning friends.

When we find ourselves cheering James Trafficant merely because every so often he gave a one minute speech we agreed with while he took bribes and kickbacks, we sell out our principles and our integrity. When we castigate George Bush because he isn't Barry Goldwater or Robert A. Taft but rather a politician, we turn our noses up on the system our founding fathers put together; they made the office of the President a political position. We may want to yearn for a day where politics comes into play less often, but we make that day retreat further off when we embrace the blatent political tools of demagoguery and propaganda. Let's grow up.

15 posted on 07/31/2002 3:38:50 PM PDT by Dales
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To: Pokey78
I may hyperventilate. Camille AND Steyn? WOOHOO.
16 posted on 07/31/2002 3:40:46 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Pokey78
"CP: I'm still a Nader fan. His critiques of capitalism can save it. "

That is the funniest damn thing I've read in a while. For a woman that invokes Stalinism at the drop of a hat as a curse on her enemies, it seems profoundly ironic to praise this socialist greenie-weenie par excellence.

If she is a Libertarian, then I am a potted plant.
38 posted on 07/31/2002 7:09:57 PM PDT by Lizard_King
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To: Pokey78
I wouldn't waste two seconds listening to that unctuous socialite, George Stephanopolous, or Paul Begala, a yapping mongoose with the ethical sense of a stone.

I enjoy reading everything she writes. Thanks for posting this. (I would appreciate it if you could add me to your Sullivan list.)

39 posted on 07/31/2002 7:14:29 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Pokey78
Coalition?

40 posted on 07/31/2002 7:29:13 PM PDT by Consort
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To: Pokey78
Thanks Pokey. A double treat.
42 posted on 07/31/2002 8:26:59 PM PDT by AUsome Joy
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