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To: HumanaeVitae
"Sure is."

"But it's brutal."

??? So you're agreeing with me that laissez-faire capitalism is the most generous economic system known to man...but you're STILL saying it's "brutal"? Gimme a break! :-)

Well, yes...on the planet Utopia, there's a system that isn't brutal!

One has to go by "relative brutality." If a system is LESS brutal than any other system, it's misleading to STILL call that system "brutal." To still call the LEAST brutal system on earth "brutal" is to totally obliterate the meaning of the word!

"And without Christianity, it wouldn't exist."

Again, you're confusing coincidence with causality. Laissez-faire capitalism may have originated in Christian countries, but that doesn't mean that Christianity was required to bring about laissez-faire capitalism. Ayn Rand (you brought her up, not me ;-)) was an atheist. But she was also a laissez-faire capitalist. Milton Friedman is a laissez-faire capitalist, but...well, I have no idea whether or not he's a Christian.

The key to laissez-faire capitalism is that one thinks that people should be free, so long as they don't physically harm or defraud each other. I don't see that Christianity ties in there, anywhere. In fact, some of the most Christian parts of the world (e.g. Latin America) are NOT laissez-faire capitalists.

"On your Bill Gates example, much of the money Gates gives goes to awful organizations like Planned Parenthood etc."

Define "much," in the "much of his money..." When one gives $1 billion per year away, even giving 1-in-1000 dollars to Planned Parenthood will still be $1 million!

Here's the breakdown of Gates Foundation giving, to date:

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/grants/default.htm

The two biggest causes are "Global Health" and "Education." I'm too lazy to look much farther, but I'd bet the vast majority (say, 90%+?) of the "Global Health" giving is for things like tuberculosis, malaria, AIDS, schistosomiasis (nasty parasitic disease, got $30 million in research on July 17).

"By the way, it sounds like you must have recently read Rand's 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal'."

Never have read a single Rand book. Read her Playboy interview last night. Most stuff I agreed with. But she said that the way to bring down the Soviet Union was an economic boycott. Not only is that wrong, it is in conflict with her supposed ideal (that government should only keep people from hurting or defrauding one another).

"I used to believe that stuff."

I "believe" in nothing. I THINK everything. (Based on the Rand interview, I guess she'd be proud of me.) I don't "believe" laissez-faire capitalism is the most generous economic system on earth...I THINK it is. I'm open to being convinced otherwise. (But not tonight...I need to go home and get some supper, and fix my computer.)

Again, based on the analyses *I've* seen (such as the Heritage Foundation's annual Index of Economic Freedom)...the countries that are closest to laissez-faire economies (e.g., U.S., Hong Kong [obsolete], Singapore, New Zealand)...are also the wealthiest.

And they're also among the least "brutal" in the world.

G'night.
68 posted on 08/02/2002 4:46:12 PM PDT by Mark Bahner
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To: Mark Bahner
Nice discussing w/you...

Last point--Christianity holds that all people are equal before the law. Guess what capitalism requires to work...

71 posted on 08/02/2002 6:17:39 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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