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Apparently you missed my point. All of this stuff happened because laissez faire capitalism is brutal by nature. Capitalism is great; unfettered capitalism ain't so great.

By the way, all that stuff I describe about children being chained to machines happened. So, anyway, I guess I'm learning not to get in heated debates with libertarians. I forgot that when I was a Randian libertarian myself that no amount of argument would convince me out of my "pure liberty" standpoint.

Cheers.

"Apparently you missed my point. All of this stuff happened because laissez faire capitalism is brutal by nature."

I didn't miss your point. Your point is wrong. You are mistaking coincidence for causality. I agree there was laissez faire capitalism in the U.S. in the late 19th century. And I agree that conditions were "brutal" (at least compared to today).

But you're completely wrong to think that the laissez faire capitalism is what caused the brutality. It was lack of wealth caused brutality. Specifically, each person was roughly 10 times poorer than the average person today (when adjusted for inflation). And that actually UNDERESTIMATES the level of poverty. The more appropriate adjustment in wealth is not for inflation, but adjusting according to purchasing power. (In other words, for example, how many man-hours did a person have to work to buy a hoe, back then.)

Adjusting for purchasing power, people were probably (I don't have the figures in front of me) more like 20+ times poorer than they are today. (In other words, today you could buy a hoe for about one hour's wages...but in the 19th century it was more like 20+ hours.)

THAT is what caused the brutality...the lack of wealth. The laissez-faire capitalism didn't.

"By the way, all that stuff I describe about children being chained to machines happened."

Well, duh! It's still happening, man! But WHERE is it happening, today? Answer: in Bangladesh (and elsewhere)...where people are POOR! Poverty is brutal. Laissez-faire capitalism is NOT.

This can be seen, even in America. Do the people at Microsoft work under brutal conditions? Answer: No, Microsoft is among the companies that is perennially near the top, when (Fortune?) magazine rates the "Best Places in America" to work.

Why is Microsoft a good place to work...because the federal government enforces a minimum wage? No, because Microsoft makes boatloads of money.

Is France a better place than the U.S. to live because, it is actually a CRIME to work more than 35 hours per week in France? Answer: Well, since more French people are immigrating to America, than Americans are immigrating to France, my guess is that America (where we can work 60 hour weeks, if desired) must be better.

You were right when you were a "Randian libertarian"...the absolute best government is one which only prohibits people from doing violence to or defrauding one another. If you've changed your mind, you've gone from right to wrong.

Best wishes, and hopes you'll straighten yourself out. :-)

Oh, and one more thing.

Bill Gates lives in something like a $40 million house. Bill Gates gives approximately $1 BILLION to charity, every year. In other words, Bill Gates gives roughly 25 times the value of his house(!) to charity, every year.

Now, how many of us give even 1/10th of the value of our houses to charity every year?

In other words, Bill Gates is more than 250 TIMES as generous as you and I are! (With me, it's more like 500+ times more generous.) But why is Bill Gates so generous? Answer: Because he can AFFORD it!

Laissez-faire capitalism is the absolutely best (fastest) way to generate wealth. As can be seen from Bill Gates (and Ted Turner, and every other really rich person), wealth generates GENEROSITY!

Ergo, laissez-faire capitalism generates the greatest amount of generosity.

Laissez-faire capitalism is not "brutal." It's the most generous economic system known to man.