HEY, PATHETIC SCUM CLINTON: Shut Up on Somalia, You Lying SOB! -- Part 3

Hindsight is 20/20 and you may be correct. I do know that if I ever had the guts to be a Ranger and I was in that situation I would not mind having a tank next to me. An earlier post indicated that all the brass wanted armor to be available.

What I found really interesting in the book that seemed to be glossed over, was that Clinton was keeping us there at the behest of Bhoutris-Bhoutris Ghali (sp?)who was from the same tribe as Aidid.

The path of least resistence - a slow and predictable increase in the use of force but not enouph to get the job done.
That's what made Clinton a terrible foriegn policy president. That's why Bush the elder left Sadam in power. That's why we tried to use mercinaries to do our fighting for us in Afganistan , etc etc etc.

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Actually, the above were your words. You didn't say "political expediency." My argument with you is not that a political decision was made. The decision was clearly made with influence of the State Department. Bush did not leave Saddam in power, as you said, because of "a slow and predictable increase in the use of force but not enouph to get the job done." I hope that clears it up for you.

Well, I don't believe this father was out of line writing this letter to an administration who openely claimed they loathed the military. I think the father did a very brave and admirable thing.

While I can understand and appreciate your skepticism to not join the services, I must say both this father and his son served willingly and proudly even though in the son's case the father felt the administration failed him.

Anyway, God bless America. That's the bottom line, huh?

Agreed. As much as I hate Clinton, the call to hold back armor and AC-130 support was a necessary evil, given the terrain. Time and again it has been proven that using armor in a MOUT environment is suicidal. Just look into the Russians and their problems in Grozny. Also, while a good portion of the city was attacking our soldiers during the Battle of Mogadishu, a larger segment were just living day-to-day life. Send AC-130 gunships into that environment and you'll literally slaughter 100s of people who had nothing to do with the battle.

The mission should've been better executed, and the U.N. commanders should've been executed for holding back on us b/c they weren't "in the know" of our operators in the area.

Yeah, that's right. The father wasn't "out of line," and his criticism was valid, but he really had no reason to expect the Clinton administration to act in a competent manner.

What I've always found interesting is that Vietnam veterans I've known can be divided into two groups: One group pushed their own kids to join the armed forces, out of a sense of patriotism or something of that sort. The other group would have disowned any child of theirs that even thought of joining the armed forces, out of a sense of betrayal over what they themselves had gone through.

It's actually amazing -- in my experience there has been no middle ground in cases like this.

American tanks would have made the rescue quick even though the “sammis” were hopped-up on drugs.

Never rely on UN support unless they are Brits, Aussies or South Koreans.

The Rangers and Delta guys were thrown in without a viable plan for extraction in case of worst case scenario.

I blame Les Aspin and Clinton. They were the ones that denied the A-130's and American Bradleys and armor.

The military will try to achieve political objectives with what is at their disposal.

Regarding the AC-130s, I also had the impression that the Military brass did NOT want these heavy gunships in the mix. Even with hindsight, it was concluded that the 'Little Birds' they actually used were best suited for air support in the kind of close-in street fighting that developed, and that the air support they provided prevented the casualty list from being much longer than it was.

The movie makes it clear how close the targets that air support was supposed to hit were to our own boys. An AC-130 could not have hit those targets without unacceptable risk to the Rangers and D-boys.

this attitude of mine is precisely what has kept many very capable people from joining the armed forces.

No way was Capt. Smith out of line with the cretin prez. That sorry POS needed badly to hear that his B.S. wasn't gonna float.

As for your attitude, I'll just say that you would not have been a good fit in any branch of service anyway. Nuff said.

Well, in my opinion Clinton never acted in a competent nor in a a respectful way. AS for your children, never force them into anything. Let THEM decide. Not all people are cut out for the military nor a lot of other professions that perhaps their dads or moms are in. Hell, look at Clinton. He wasn't cut out to be President.

As for your attitude, I'll just say that you would not have been a good fit in any branch of service anyway. Nuff said.

I understand exactly what you mean. Nobody orders me around under any circumstances, and I've got a damned good reason to believe that people who won't send their own kids into the armed forces are unlikely to wage war in a competent manner.

And that goes for Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. as well as for Bill Clinton.

No doubt about it. The Little Birds kept our guys from being slaughtered by the Somalis that night. As far as getting CPL Smith out of there...not a whole lot could've been done, no matter how you cut it. Chalk that failure up to the U.N. for dragging their feet on getting the armor support out there just so they could prove a point to the Task Force Ranger commanders. Had a medevac been sent in, it most likely would have been shot down, or at least several more Rangers and D-boys would've been hit in the process of loading him onto it.

I'm sorry that you didn't understand. I'll try to clearify. Read the first sentance that you quoted from me.

"the path of least resistence"

He took that path of least resistence. That is why there was a slow and predictable increase in Somalia. That is why Bush the elder left Sadam in power that is why we tried to use mercinaries to do our fighting for us in Afganistan.

Get it ?

Politicains take the path of least resistence. In other words ; the do what is politically expedient at the time. nt what is needed for the future security of America.

I hope that the politicians that screwed up the Gulf war the first time around loose this time and America wins.

Nice attempts at history re-writing, newbie. Your 20-20 hindsight is certainly remarkable.

Bush Sr. and his military leaders did exactly the right thing, every step of the way before, during, and after the Gulf War. It was one of the greatest victories in American history. And the coalition that he built and maintained amidst terrible odds saved Israel and may very well have avoided WWIII.

Your boy Clinton pissed it all away within a couple years.

Clinton apologists forget that he started micro managing every aspect of the government and defense from day one. Try again, Monica wanabees.

It's a pity that the family had to send this letter at all, and to a man with no conscious.

The time to take out Saddam Hussein was definitely when he started rejecting the UN mandates. Cracks started appearing under President Bush 41, but there wasn't enough grounds to even suggest removing Hussein until near the end of the Bush administration. Plus Saddam always came back in line the fist year or so after we threatned him again. Attacking Iraq during the election (92) would have been considered political maneuvering. Real Presidents don't leave a mess for the next one to clean up. The most obvious times to strike Iraq happened on several occasions during the Clinton administration most notably when the UN weapons inspectors were thrown out the last time. The Slickster did nothing.

My boy Clinton ? what kind of an idiot are you !!!!? Clinton was a terrible president. Haven't you read my posts ? What he did in Somolia was outrageous both by not giving our guys what they needed and by removing them after we suffered a few casualties.

I was pointing out why he did it. He did it for the same reasons Vietnam was such a disaster , the same reasons we left Sadam in power after the Gulf war , the same reasons we used mercinaries in Afganistan to do our fighting for us , the same reasons we gave Osborn the distinguished flying cross for cowardice.

These are all examples of politicains playing politics instead of doing what was needed. They think only of short term political expediency. Real cowards take the path of least resistence for fear of making a mistake. They try split the baby instead of doing what obviously must be done.

That's what Clinton did in Somalia.

I agree. Clinton should have burried Sadam. He was a bad president. The error was precipitated by leaving Sadam in power in the first place. It's not hindsight. I ( and the rest of the world , Including our enemies and probably Sadam himself ) thought that we were crazy to do so. We did it to create and maintain unneeded coelition. It was utter foolishness.

I WAS ONLY ABOUT A YEAR OLD DURING THE LAST YEAR OF THE VIETNAM WAR SO ANY KNOWLEDGE I HAVE OF IT IS FROM READING OR HEARING STORIES. I AM NOBODY, BUT I ALONG WITH PROBABLY ALL VIETNAM VETERIANS ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE OUR LOUSY GOVERNMENT GIVE YOU ALL A HEROS WELCOME HOME THAT IS LONG OVER DUE, TO SAY THE LEAST. I KNOW THEY ARE ONLY MOVIES AND ITS A PATHEDIC WHY OF LEARNING ABOUT WAR, BUT I HAVE WATCHED BLACK HAWK DOWN AND WE WERE SOLIDERS AND I HAVE TO SAY I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO ASHAMED TO CALL MY SELF AN AMERICAN. NOT IN THE LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE AMAZING SOLDIERS WHO FIGHT FOR MY RIGHT TO BREATHE FREELY, AND ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE SENT INTO WAR TO BASICALLY FEND FOR THEMSELVES. BUT FOR THE COMPLETE DISGUST IN OUR VERY GOVERNMENT WHO PUT YOUR HANDS IN SHACKELS AND TIED ON A BLIND FOLD ON AND SET OUR SOLDIERS IN THE MIDDLE OF GROUND ZERO, AND SAID GOOD LUCK. THEN SAT BACK ON A EXPENSIVE LEATHER COUCH WATCHING FROM A TELEPROMTER WHILE OUR MEN WERE BEING SLAUGHTERED IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. I HAVE NEVER CRIED SO HARD AND FELT SO UTTERLY SAD AS I DID AFTER SEENING THESE MOVIES AND ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT FOR WEEKS WAS WHERE WAS THE DAMN AIR SUPPORT?! I KNOW FROM THE MOVIE BUT NOW ALSO FROM YOUR LETTER TO CLINTON THAT THE ORDER WAS TRUELY NEVER GIVEN. I CAN ONLY HOPE NOW THAT YOU FEEL YOUR SON'S LIFE WAS NOT GIVEN IN VAIN BUT TO SEE THAT AS INSIGNIFICANT AS I, YOURS AND YOUR SON'S SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY SHOWS ME WHAT IT REALLY MEANS TO BE A PROUD AMERICAN.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR SACRIFICES.

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