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Weed Whackers The anti-marijuana forces, and why they're wrong
National Review ^ | 8/20/2001 | Rich Lowry

Posted on 07/29/2002 9:55:32 AM PDT by WindMinstrel

Rarely do trial balloons burst so quickly. During the recent British campaign, Tory shadow home secretary Ann Widdecombe had no sooner proposed tougher penalties for marijuana possession than a third of her fellow Tory shadow-cabinet ministers admitted to past marijuana use. Widdecome immediately had to back off. The controversy reflected a split in the party, with the confessors attempting to embarrass Widdecombe politically. But something deeper was at work as well: a nascent attempt to reckon honestly with a drug that has been widely used by baby boomers and their generational successors, a tentative step toward a squaring by the political class of its personal experience with the drastic government rhetoric and policies regarding marijuana.

The American debate hasn't yet reached such a juncture, even though last year's presidential campaign featured one candidate who pointedly refused to answer questions about his past drug use and another who — according to Gore biographer Bill Turque — spent much of his young adulthood smoking dope and skipping through fields of clover (and still managed to become one of the most notoriously uptight and ambitious politicians in the country). In recent years, the debate over marijuana policy has centered on the question of whether the drug should be available for medicinal purposes (Richard Brookhiser has written eloquently in NR on the topic). Drug warriors call medical marijuana the camel's nose under the tent for legalization, and so — for many of its advocates — it is. Both sides in the medical-marijuana controversy have ulterior motives, which suggests it may be time to stop debating the nose and move on to the full camel.

Already, there has been some action. About a dozen states have passed medical-marijuana laws in recent years, and California voters, last November, approved Proposition 36, mandating treatment instead of criminal penalties for all first- and second-time nonviolent drug offenders. Proponents of the initiative plan to export it to Ohio, Michigan, and Florida next year. Most such liberalization measures fare well at the polls — California's passed with 61 percent of the vote — as long as they aren't perceived as going too far. Loosen, but don't legalize, seems to be the general public attitude, even as almost every politician still fears departing from Bill Bennett orthodoxy on the issue. But listen carefully to the drug warriors, and you can hear some of them quietly reading marijuana out of the drug war. James Q. Wilson, for instance, perhaps the nation's most convincing advocate for drug prohibition, is careful to set marijuana aside from his arguments about the potentially ruinous effects of legalizing drugs.

There is good reason for this, since it makes little sense to send people to jail for using a drug that, in terms of its harmfulness, should be categorized somewhere between alcohol and tobacco on one hand and caffeine on the other. According to common estimates, alcohol and tobacco kill hundreds of thousands of people a year. In contrast, there is as a practical matter no such thing as a lethal overdose of marijuana. Yet federal law makes possessing a single joint punishable by up to a year in prison, and many states have similar penalties. There are about 700,000 marijuana arrests in the United States every year, roughly 80 percent for possession. Drug warriors have a strange relationship with these laws: They dispute the idea that anyone ever actually goes to prison for mere possession, but at the same time resist any suggestion that laws providing for exactly that should be struck from the books. So, in the end, one of the drug warriors' strongest arguments is that the laws they favor aren't enforced — we're all liberalizers now.

Gateway to Nowhere There has, of course, been a barrage of government- sponsored anti-marijuana propaganda over the last two decades, but the essential facts are clear: Marijuana is widely used, and for the vast majority of its users is nearly harmless and represents a temporary experiment or enthusiasm. A 1999 report by the Institute of Medicine — a highly credible outfit that is part of the National Academy of Sciences — found that "in 1996, 68.6 million people — 32% of the U.S. population over 12 years old — had tried marijuana or hashish at least once in their lifetime, but only 5% were current users." The academic literature talks of "maturing out" of marijuana use the same way college kids grow out of backpacks and Nietzsche. Most marijuana users are between the ages of 18 and 25, and use plummets after age 34, by which time children and mortgages have blunted the appeal of rolling paper and bongs. Authors Robert J. MacCoun and Peter Reuter — drug-war skeptics, but cautious ones — point out in their new book Drug War Heresies that "among 26 to 34 year olds who had used the drug daily sometime in their life in 1994, only 22 percent reported that they had used it in the past year."

Marijuana prohibitionists have for a long time had trouble maintaining that marijuana itself is dangerous, so they instead have relied on a bank shot--marijuana's danger is that it leads to the use of drugs that are actually dangerous. This is a way to shovel all the effects of heroin and cocaine onto marijuana, a kind of drug-war McCarthyism. It is called the "gateway theory," and has been so thoroughly discredited that it is still dusted off only by the most tendentious of drug warriors. The theory's difficulty begins with a simple fact: Most people who use marijuana, even those who use it with moderate frequency, don't go on to use any other illegal drug. According the Institute of Medicine report, "Of 34 to 35 year old men who had used marijuana 10–99 times by the age 24–25, 75% never used any other illicit drug." As Lynn Zimmer and John Morgan point out in their exhaustive book Marijuana Myths/Marijuana Facts, the rates of use of hard drugs have more to do with their fashionability than their connection to marijuana. In 1986, near the peak of the cocaine epidemic, 33 percent of high-school seniors who had used marijuana also had tried cocaine, but by 1994 only 14 percent of marijuana users had gone on to use cocaine.

Then, there is the basic faulty reasoning behind the gateway theory. Since marijuana is the most widely available and least dangerous illegal drug, it makes sense that people inclined to use other harder-to-find drugs will start with it first — but this tells us little or nothing about marijuana itself or about most of its users. It confuses temporality with causality. Because a cocaine addict used marijuana first doesn't mean he is on cocaine because he smoked marijuana (again, as a factual matter this hypothetical is extremely rare — about one in 100 marijuana users becomes a regular user of cocaine). Drug warriors recently have tried to argue that research showing that marijuana acts on the brain in a way vaguely similar to cocaine and heroin — plugging into the same receptors — proves that it somehow "primes" the brain for harder drugs. But alcohol has roughly the same action, and no one argues that Budweiser creates heroin addicts. "There is no evidence," says the Institute of Medicine study, "that marijuana serves as a stepping stone on the basis of its particular physiological effect."

The relationship between drugs and troubled teens appears to be the opposite of that posited by drug warriors — the trouble comes first, then the drugs (or, in other words, it's the kid, not the substance, who is the problem). The Institute of Medicine reports that "it is more likely that conduct disorders generally lead to substance abuse than the reverse." The British medical journal Lancet — in a long, careful consideration of the marijuana literature — explains that heavy marijuana use is associated with leaving high school and having trouble getting a job, but that this association wanes "when statistical adjustments are made for the fact that, compared with their peers, heavy cannabis users have poor high-school performance before using cannabis." (And, remember, this is heavy use: "adolescents who casually experiment with cannabis," according to MacCoun and Reuter, "appear to function quite well with respect to schooling and mental health.") In the same way problem kids are attracted to illegal drugs, they are drawn to alcohol and tobacco. One study found that teenage boys who smoke cigarettes daily are about ten times likelier to be diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder than non-smoking teenage boys. By the drug warrior's logic, this means that tobacco causes mental illness.

Another arrow in the drug warriors' quiver is the number of people being treated for marijuana: If the drug is so innocuous, why do they seek, or need, treatment? Drug warriors cite figures that say that roughly 100,000 people enter drug-treatment programs every year primarily for marijuana use. But often, the punishment for getting busted for marijuana possession is treatment. According to one government study, in 1998 54 percent of people in state-run treatment programs for marijuana were sent there by the criminal-justice system. So, there is a circularity here: The drug war mandates marijuana treatment, then its advocates point to the fact of that treatment to justify the drug war. Also, people who test positive in employment urine tests often have to get treatment to keep their jobs, and panicked parents will often deliver their marijuana-smoking sons and daughters to treatment programs. This is not to deny that there is such a thing as marijuana dependence. According to The Lancet, "About one in ten of those who ever use cannabis become dependent on it at some time during their 4 or 5 years of heaviest use."

But it is important to realize that dependence on marijuana — apparently a relatively mild psychological phenomenon — is entirely different from dependence on cocaine and heroin. Marijuana isn't particularly addictive. One key indicator of the addictiveness of other drugs is that lab rats will self-administer them. Rats simply won't self-administer THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. Two researchers in 1991 studied the addictiveness of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and marijuana. Both ranked caffeine and marijuana as the least addictive. One gave the two drugs identical scores and another ranked marijuana as slightly less addicting than caffeine. A 1991 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services report to Congress states: "Given the large population of marijuana users and the infrequent reports of medical problems from stopping use, tolerance and dependence are not major issues at present." Indeed, no one is quite sure what marijuana treatment exactly is. As MacCoun and Reuter write, "Severity of addiction is modest enough that there is scarcely any research on treatment of marijuana dependence."

None of this is to say that marijuana is totally harmless. There is at least a little truth to the stereotype of the Cheech & Chong "stoner." Long-term heavy marijuana use doesn't, in the words of The Lancet, "produce the severe or grossly debilitating impairment of memory, attention, and cognitive function that is found with chronic heavy alcohol use," but it can impair cognitive functioning nonetheless: "These impairments are subtle, so it remains unclear how important they are for everyday functioning, and whether they are reversed after an extended period of abstinence." This, then, is the bottom-line harm of marijuana to its users: A small minority of people who smoke it may — by choice, as much as any addictive compulsion — eventually smoke enough of it for a long enough period of time to suffer impairments so subtle that they may not affect everyday functioning or be permanent. Arresting, let alone jailing, people for using such a drug seems outrageously disproportionate, which is why drug warriors are always so eager to deny that anyone ever goes to prison for it.

Fighting the Brezhnev Doctrine In this contention, the drug warriors are largely right. The fact is that the current regime is really only a half-step away from decriminalization. And despite all the heated rhetoric of the drug war, on marijuana there is a quasi-consensus: Legalizers think that marijuana laws shouldn't be on the books; prohibitionists think, in effect, that they shouldn't be enforced. A reasonable compromise would be a version of the Dutch model of decriminalization, removing criminal penalties for personal use of marijuana, but keeping the prohibition on street-trafficking and mass cultivation. Under such a scenario, laws for tobacco — an unhealthy drug that is quite addictive — and for marijuana would be heading toward a sort of middle ground, a regulatory regime that controls and discourages use but doesn't enlist law enforcement in that cause. MacCoun and Reuter have concluded from the experience of decriminalizing the possession of small amounts of marijuana in the Netherlands, twelve American states in the 1970s, and parts of Australia that "the available evidence suggests that simply removing the prohibition against possession does not increase cannabis use."

Drug warriors, of course, will have none of it. They support a drug-war Brezhnev doctrine under which no drug-war excess can ever be turned back — once a harsh law is on the books for marijuana possession, there it must remain lest the wrong "signal" be sent. "Drug use," as Bill Bennett has said, "is dangerous and immoral." But for the overwhelming majority of its users marijuana is not the least bit dangerous. (Marijuana's chief potential danger to others — its users driving while high — should, needless to say, continue to be treated as harshly as drunk driving.) As for the immorality of marijuana's use, it generally is immoral to break the law. But this is just another drug-war circularity: The marijuana laws create the occasion for this particular immorality. If it is on the basis of its effect — namely, intoxication — that Bennett considers marijuana immoral, then he has to explain why it's different from drunkenness, and why this particular sense of well-being should be banned in an America that is now the great mood-altering nation, with millions of people on Prozac and other drugs meant primarily to make them feel good.

In the end, marijuana prohibition basically relies on cultural prejudice. This is no small thing. Cultural prejudices are important. Alcohol and tobacco are woven into the very fabric of America. Marijuana doesn't have the equivalent of, say, the "brewer-patriot" Samuel Adams (its enthusiasts try to enlist George Washington, but he grew hemp instead of smoking it). Marijuana is an Eastern drug, and importantly for conservatives, many of its advocates over the years have looked and thought like Allen Ginsberg. But that isn't much of an argument for keeping it illegal, and if marijuana started out culturally alien, it certainly isn't anymore. No wonder drug warriors have to strain for medical and scientific reasons to justify its prohibition. But once all the misrepresentations and exaggerations are stripped away, the main pharmacological effect of marijuana is that it gets people high. Or as The Lancet puts it, "When used in a social setting, it may produce infectious laughter and talkativeness."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: cannabis; conservatism; nationalreview; pot; wod; wodlist
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To: Malcolm
Yeah, you guys got all the answers. So why aren't you in power? Right, because you have all the WRONG answers. Legalized drugs! AS IF.....

So by your definition, Clinton and Co were "right" and had the "right answers" because they were in power for eight years? Fidel is right, because he's in power?

Geezus...is this the sort of crap they taught you when you were learning Political Science, and getting your *liberal* arts degree? Do you even actually WORK for a living?
201 posted on 07/29/2002 3:07:52 PM PDT by WyldKard
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To: robertpaulsen
Again, I'm looking for reasons why to legalize pot, and quite frankly, I haven't heard one good one yet. Yours included.

I don't expect to convert you. Some people seem to be impervious to logic. Most of the arguments against pot are invalid? Who cares! Pot is less harmful than alcohol? So what! Pot is not a gateway drug? Damn the facts, I think it is! Of course, the best line of all is, since pot is harmful to kids and can screw up their future, we should therefore arrest them if we catch them with it, give them a criminal record and REALLY mess up their future.

No, I do not expect to win you over to my side. I simply wish to demonstrate to others how insane your side is. And you make it easy...

202 posted on 07/29/2002 3:10:30 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
and there's the ugly side of the WoD. Those of us who are tired of our taxes going up, and tired of government growing, and tired of socialists grabbing our civil liberties, have to spend our time and effort convincing "conservatives" that the abortion that is the "New Deal" war on drugs is a bad thing. Feh
203 posted on 07/29/2002 3:12:38 PM PDT by WindMinstrel
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To: Malcolm
I'm not a Libertarian, but that is one of the most inane screeds I have seen in some time. Let's do a little skeet shooting here.

That's the LP cultist's problem, and has been since the 60s, drug use. Recreational drug use is wrong, something they can’t accept. Legalization of their list of drugs would only make things worse, could never improve the situation. They just cannot accept that reality.

PULL! Yeah, and alcohol Prohibition really did a lot to stop America from drinking. All it did was create organized crime, expand federal police powers, corrupt law enforcement and turn formerly law-abiding Americans into lawbreakers. Prohibitions against pot have done the same. Cripes, pot is a plant people can grow in the back yard, like tomatoes. But the prohibitionists have turned it into a cash cow for criminal gangs instead.

All their huffing and puffing doesn't change one person's mind about it.

PULL! There has been a steady erosion of support for the drug war, with many former proponents re-examining their position.

Most of us know better, which for some reason, they can't grasp.

PULL! That is the liberal mantra - we know what is better for you than you do.

They'll never succeed in getting anything changed, not even medical marijuana.

PULL! Medical marijuana has been passed by many states. Many other states have decriminalized possession up to one ounce. If you are gonna debate on FR, at least try to keep up with current events.

They can't even sell this by hiding behind the Constitution.

PULL! Never heard it that way - hiding behind the Constitution. I never realized the Constitution was a duck blind. Sad to see that you believe it is such.

They just don't get it. Maybe I ought to feel sorry for LP types. Maybe they're just incapable of knowing better.

I think they're actually glad you don't like them.

204 posted on 07/29/2002 3:18:47 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Jonathon Spectre
Society does exist and can be found if you know what you're looking for. It is a collection of individuals with common interests and standards. This society, which at one time declared pot legal, has had a change of heart and declared it illegal. If one obeys the law, I don't see how this hurts anyone.

If you favor legalization of pot, then your standards are not the same as the rest of society, and, on this issue, you are not a part of "society", thus your confusion as to being able to locate it in three dimensions. If enough people share your view, new standards can be shaped, and society will change. But, before society changes it's collective mind yet again on this issue, I think they need a better reason than, "Why not?"

205 posted on 07/29/2002 3:20:17 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: WindMinstrel
I differ from a lot of LP philosophy in that I believe there is a positive role for government. Of course, there is a positive role for trained attack dogs as well, you just need to keep them on a short leash and let them loose when the occasion merits.

I do NOT think that hard drugs should be legalized. That stuff is a short, hard road to hell, and I've NEVER seen of anyone who not only destroys themselves, but often destroys or harms people around them with it. Having said that, I think the problem of hard-drug addiction needs to be treated on the demand side.

But you cannot apply this same line of thought to weed. Just as we do not punish the millions of social drinkers for the actions of alcoholics, we should also realize that most people who use pot are not a menace to society. Just ask any cop what they would rather deal with - a room full of drunks or a room full of potheads. Pot prohibition is nuts. Period. And I have no desire to ever smoke the crap again, so you authoritarian propagandists can spare me that accusation for my stand on the matter. I just think the enforcement efforts against pot are a complete waste of my tax dollars and a complete insult to the intellegence of citizens...

206 posted on 07/29/2002 3:26:43 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Dakmar
Hot dogs are illegal?
207 posted on 07/29/2002 3:30:12 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
If you favor legalization of pot, then your standards are not the same as the rest of society, and, on this issue, you are not a part of "society", thus your confusion as to being able to locate it in three dimensions.

I would re-examine your premises. From the article:

Most such liberalization measures fare well at the polls — California's passed with 61 percent of the vote — as long as they aren't perceived as going too far. Loosen, but don't legalize, seems to be the general public attitude

People (or society, if that is your approach) are a bit smarter than you make them out to be. People realize that the current approach is a failure. But they also realize that there can be a downside. So they will take baby steps with referenda (because the pols are too enamored of the drug war), and try and find other approaches. Within five years, I would venture that pot will be either decriminalized or legalized in probably 45 of the 50 states - and the feds will bitch and moan, but the states will have spoken. And that action will revive the 10th Amendment from below, because the people have given up on the feds administering CPR on the 10th from above...

208 posted on 07/29/2002 3:32:54 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: robertpaulsen
Society does exist and can be found if you know what you're looking for. It is a collection of individuals with common interests and standards. This society, which at one time declared pot legal, has had a change of heart and declared it illegal. If one obeys the law, I don't see how this hurts anyone.

Society didn't declare it illegal, Congress did - in fact they didn't even declare it illegal, they just agreed to attach a tax stamp to it. And they did it based on outright lies and misinformation from a disenfranchised career bureaucrat in prohition enforcement named Harry J. Anslinger, who proceed to impose de facto prohition by refusing to issue the stamps. And if we all had obeyed the law, we wouldn't know we'd been lied to. And if people like you had their way, we never would.

209 posted on 07/29/2002 3:41:52 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: robertpaulsen
Hot dogs are illegal?

That reply tells me all I need to know about you. It appears that you have failed to grasp the concept of compelling interest, which simply stated means the Government better have damn good reason before it interferes in the private lives of citizens. Something being illegal would appear to be ample justification of it's being illegal, does that pretty well sum up your philospphy on the matter?

210 posted on 07/29/2002 3:51:09 PM PDT by Dakmar
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To: All
LOL! There ain't no substitute for the right answer. Legalization of drugs would be worse than the present situation, period. All you hotheads will not change that fact. Forget it. Alcohol was legalized, and it put the Al Capones of the world out of the alcohol biz, but it has also helped to destroy countless lives, marriages, careers, etc. And it is totally illegal to sell it to minors, yet they can always come up with it if an adult buys it for them, which happens all the time. So by legalizing marijuana and other substances, this improves the situation?

Unless you have a convincing argument that legalizing drugs pays benefits that outweigh the above drawbacks, the only people you will convince are those that don't care about children, and those that want to do drugs on a recreational basis. I'm conservative, believe in the US Constitution, and believe in freedom, something that is not universal in this country. If you can't convince people like me, your most promising converts, how are you going to convince moderates? What new argument do you have that you have not already put forward? That's my point. Argue until you're blue in the face, but with all the evidence that the immediate legalization of drugs now unlawful to take or possess would cause much more problems than the dissolution of the DEA or the happiness of a few potheads. The truth of it is, you LP types could care less about any ill effects of your plan. "That's somebody else's problem." But you're up against superior numbers of people who totally oppose this and will not allow it to happen. But the LP and its dedicated followers were never creatures of logic to begin with. Cheap shots by Neil Boortz in debates on the subject will not do the trick. Thankfully, it's a group that will never take power in substantive numbers; a dog catcher here, a city councilman there, etc. Thank G-d for small favors!!!

211 posted on 07/29/2002 3:51:31 PM PDT by Malcolm
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To: robertpaulsen
If you favor legalization of pot, then your standards are not the same as the rest of society, and, on this issue, you are not a part of "society", thus your confusion as to being able to locate it in three dimensions.

I am not confused about not being able to locate it. I understand it does not exist. What does exist, as I have said before, is the individual. Any claims about the good of "society" or other such tripe are merely stage dressing to deflect attention away from damage being done to individuals in the name of some non-existent amorphous mass.

This society, which at one time declared pot legal, has had a change of heart and declared it illegal. If one obeys the law, I don't see how this hurts anyone.

Large majorities have voted to decriminalize in every state that such measures have been proposed in. In Washington DC the federal government itself refused to allow the counting of votes after a referendum on decriminalization in order to avoid embarrassment. This is because anyone willing to open their eyes realizes the current system is an utter, wasteful failure.

It was not "society" that decided pot was going to somehow be illegal because, again, it does not exist. It was the Imperial Federal Government, at the behest of certain industrial tycoons, who decided to criminalize a plant. Because of this we've had decades of wasting money and lives in order to... what, exactly? I don't know. Neither does anyone else. But we must keep at it! To do otherwise would be... different, I suppose.

Who does it hurt? Take a look at a federal prison. Take a look at the last fifty years of eroding Constitutional protections in the name of this unwinnable War on Human Nature. Take a look at the younger generation growing up with utter contempt for the law. Then realize the correct answer to "Who does it hurt?" is "everybody".

212 posted on 07/29/2002 3:51:45 PM PDT by Jonathon Spectre
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To: dirtboy
I believe the 61% referred to treatment vs incarceration for first (and second, when will they learn) non-violent offenders. Sure, everyone makes mistakes (in pairs, it seems, in CA). But we lock them up on the third offense, right? I mean, you are in favor of this initiative, aren't you? Maybe not.
213 posted on 07/29/2002 3:56:00 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Malcolm
I'm conservative, believe in the US Constitution, and believe in freedom, something that is not universal in this country.

You believe in FDR's Constitution, something that is not universal in this country, and certainly not on this forum.

214 posted on 07/29/2002 3:57:12 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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Comment #215 Removed by Moderator

To: tacticalogic; Malcolm
He sure doesn't seem to believe in the Ninth or Tenth Amendments.
216 posted on 07/29/2002 4:04:53 PM PDT by Dakmar
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To: Malcolm
Oh Brother!

Where to start?

Kids come up with alcohol despite its being legal. OK. Kids come up with pot despite its being illegal. HMMMM.

Alcohol destroys lives, marriages and careers. OK.
If pot does the above it's often a consequence of its illegality. HMMMM.

Alcoholics take a toll on society in missed work, vehicular accidents, death. OK.
Pot heads take a toll on society by sitting in jail costing tax payers money. HMMMM.

Alcohol prohibition is unconstituional. OK
Marijuana prohibition is constitutional. HMMMM.

DEA, Civil Forfeiture, Plan Colombia, No Knock Raids, "Accidental" Shootings, Prisons, Racism. OK.
People growing plants and smoking pot in the privacy of their homes. HMMMM.
217 posted on 07/29/2002 4:05:55 PM PDT by jayef
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To: Dakmar
No, but he's got that expansive reading of the Commerce Clause elevated to the status of scripture.
218 posted on 07/29/2002 4:08:30 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: robertpaulsen
I believe the 61% referred to treatment vs incarceration for first (and second, when will they learn) non-violent offenders. Sure, everyone makes mistakes (in pairs, it seems, in CA). But we lock them up on the third offense, right? I mean, you are in favor of this initiative, aren't you? Maybe not.

Nice try. That referenda is a significant challenge to the drug warriors. Plus, many states have passed medical marijuana initiatives.

You would find a lot more support if you would quit the illogical opposition to marijuana and instead concentrate on hard drugs. I haven't been a hard drug user. But I have seen plenty of the carnage from them, and I oppose their legalization, just think we should try a different way of dealing with them. In turn, I have known a lot of users of pot, and IMO it is far less harmful than alcohol, a drug that killed an aunt and an uncle in my family. This isn't about a desire for me to consume pot legally - I have no desire to ever smoke it again. It is instead about a desire to direct efforts at real problems. Pot isn't one.

219 posted on 07/29/2002 4:12:41 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: JediGirl
First Monty Python film for me. Fabulous!

I envy you. I've got them all virtually memorized. Also have the complete series on DVD. Just missing a couple of 'lost german' episodes (got about half of those).

220 posted on 07/29/2002 4:25:03 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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