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To: jlogajan
Your "analysis" is flawed and misleading. Provided below in Capt. Lahr's appeal to his FOIA request is some pertinent data, along with an assessment of whether or not a 3,000ft climb by a noseless Boeing 747 is even in the realm of possibility.

September 24, 2001

Captain Ray Lahr (ret.)
18254 Coastline Drive
Malibu, CA 90265

Carol J. Carmody, Acting Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board
490 L’Enfant Plaza East, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20594

Dear Ms. Carmody:

Thank you for your letter of September 17, 2001, which responded to my previous letters to you and Ronald Battocchi, General Counsel for the Safety Board. Your letter refers to a new FOIA number 2001-0410. Although it was not my intent, my third appeal of the NTSB refusal of my FOIA request seems to have been interpreted as a new request, and it has been given a new FOIA number. I don’t mind the additional number as long as the NTSB explains how it got from the Boeing data published in the TWA 800 accident report to the NTSB conclusion that TWA 800 zoom-climbed several thousand feet with the nose blown off. I am not asking for new Boeing proprietary data (the pretext for the NTSB refusal). My appeal is based on the Boeing data that the NTSB has already published.

Parameter Before Nose Separation After Nose Separation
Gross Weight (lbs) 574,000 464,606
C.G. %MAC 21.1 57.8
Iyy slug-ft sq 27,790,000 15,780,000
Ixx slug-ft sq 19,110,000 18,970,000

The MAC (mean aerodynamic chord) was approximately 33 feet. The C.G. (center of gravity) moved from 21.1% to 57.8% MAC or about 12.1 feet aft. The C.L. (center of lift) of 574,000 lbs didn’t move. That means the aircraft suddenly experienced a nose-up torque of about 6,000,000 ft-lbs. Dividing the torque by the angular moment of inertia of 15,780,000 slug-ft sq gives and angular acceleration of .38 radians per second squared or 22 degrees per second squared. That means that in 1.5 seconds the aircraft pitched through 25 degrees and was completely stalled. The aircraft was in free fall. The most it could have climbed in 1.5 seconds is about 200 feet. There was no zoom-climb. This is further corroborated by the testimony of the pilots who saw the accident and by the radar plots of the falling aircraft. The NTSB goofed when it claimed that TWA 800 zoom-climbed several thousand feet, a claim that is refuted by the Boeing data which the NTSB presented to the public.

Please, Ms. Carmody, the NTSB has a responsibility and moral duty to admit its mistake about that zoom-climb. The NTSB needs to come clean with the public.

Sincerely,

Ray Lahr



29 posted on 07/27/2002 4:44:23 PM PDT by JohnFiorentino
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To: JohnFiorentino
That means the aircraft suddenly experienced a nose-up torque of about 6,000,000 ft-lbs. Dividing the torque by the angular moment of inertia of 15,780,000 slug-ft sq gives and angular acceleration of .38 radians per second squared or 22 degrees per second squared. That means that in 1.5 seconds the aircraft pitched through 25 degrees and was completely stalled.

Ah, now we are into "theory." This guy's theory forgets that the tail surfaces are going to provide an aerodynamic force opposed to their being swung broadside into a 500 mph headwind. Where is his force calculation for that? Oops, I guess he forgot.

31 posted on 07/27/2002 5:21:47 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: JohnFiorentino
That means that in 1.5 seconds the aircraft pitched through 25 degrees and was completely stalled. The aircraft was in free fall.

Well, he might have been an airline pilot but he ain't no engineer or physicist. If his calculation of the pitch-up was correct (it isn't) and such a pitch up would make the machine "completely stalled," he still hasn't accounted for inertia. A half million pounds that is moving is going to keep moving in the direction it was going.

It's amusing how you defer to Lahr's experience and all (is there a bio of him anywhere? Who was he a captain for? What is he rated on?) but you don't respect the literally dozens of airline captains who were involved in the TWA 800 enquiry, many of whom were not retired and were indeed rated in the specific type of aircraft involved.

For all we know, Capt. Lahr flew DC-2s with Ernest K. Gann and has been retired since the Eisenhower presidency. Tell us something about your hero's credentials, and why you believe him. I mean, apart from the fact that you start with your mind made up and simply trust anyone who makes your tinfoil tingle.

Unlike FR conspiratroids, NTSB frequently changes its working theories as new evidence forces a reassessment.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

142 posted on 07/30/2002 5:40:18 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: snopercod
Bump - R'29.
328 posted on 08/03/2002 6:52:25 PM PDT by First_Salute
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