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To: nmh
I have yet to see God NOT help someone with sin who does believe in Him and put their fath and trust in Him. He never lets you down.

I agree

He would NEVER turn His back on one looking to leave the homosexual life.

Right.

There is nothing that cannot be cured with God's help. True. But a lot of people aren't cured. This is called the problem of evil. People remain with the bodily and psychological weaknesses even after seeking God, and even being born again.

When God cures, it's a miracle. But sometimes he leaves a "thorn in the flesh" to keep people humble. That is where God's mercy comes into play. You assume when one is saved, one never sins or is tempted to sin. Alas, this is not so. You assume God cures, but alas he often does not cure physical or psychological illnesses. Paul calls such things a "thorn in the flesh". Catholics call them "crosses". Temptations that are resisted are not sins, but weapons of the devil to make one sin, which can be resisted with grace.

Indeed, the paradox is that many who are "saved", instead of praising God for his mercy and preaching his mercy to other sinners, instead too often are willing to condemn the sins of others who are not "saved". You can quote scripture out of context all day but anyone reading Isaiah or Micah knows that there are lots of sins beside homosexual behavior out there. And anyone reading Matthew knows that God's approach is not to blast the sinner as hopeless, but to seek the lost sheep in the brambles to take him home.

122 posted on 07/28/2002 5:29:20 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc
You: "... You assume when one is saved, one never sins or is tempted to sin. Alas, this is not so. You assume God cures, but alas he often does not cure physical or psychological illnesses. Paul calls such things a "thorn in the flesh". Catholics call them "crosses". Temptations that are resisted are not sins, but weapons of the devil to make one sin, which can be resisted with grace.

I assume no such thing. Even after being saved we will still still. All mere mortals are fallible and sin. God does cure and that is not an assumption. That is Biblically sound. YOu will have to give me the verse that Paul states so I can check the context. I don't want to assume anything on your behalf. Temptation resisted or not ARE sins. THIS is what God says.

[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That verse explains how God views temptation. It is not in agreement with your view. The Judeo CHristian God is so Holy and Perfect that even thinking it is a sin. As the verse states, thinking it or lusting is the same as commiting adultry and that is a sin.
I suppose you didn't go throught the website Exodus. There is ample evidence of God's infinite love and mercy to those who want to leave the tormented homosexual life. Look at the testimonies. Look at who they credit. It is true through God all things are possible and certainly a homosexual life is NOT something God, would want anyone to experience, let alone live.

I believe Jesus when He states this:

Mark.9:23

[23] Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Mark.10:27

[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Mark.14:36

[36] And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

I also can't help but notice that you don't use Scripture to back up your beliefs and that is because it is not in agreement with God's Word. Instead you try to split hairs and redefine to support a more humanitic view of God's Word.

My focus is not on an opinion of mere mortals. It is what God says that is important. We are under grace for our punishment. AS you know also Christ died on the cross for our puishment. The wages of sin is death and that includes temptation acted upon or not is sin.

You: "Indeed, the paradox is that many who are "saved", instead of praising God for his mercy and preaching his mercy to other sinners, instead too often are willing to condemn the sins of others who are not "saved". You can quote scripture out of context all day but anyone reading Isaiah or Micah knows that there are lots of sins beside homosexual behavior out there.

Me: Just a reminder ... we are having a discussion on homosexuality and how God IS merciful to them if they put their faith/trust in Him they won;t have to be tormented with this emotional problem. I don't quote Scripture out of context and you know it. Anyone who reads the Bible knows that homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. Good grief! That is obvious and tends to cause topic drift. We are discssing homosexuality and how this sin in particular was singled out by God, not me, as particulary offensive. We could easily veer off out discussion and discuss other sins, such as divorce outside of what God permits etc. but I'm not interested in getting off topic. The topic here is homoseuxality as a sin, "tempted or acted on". When one is tempted the person has the affliction of being a homosexual which is a sin. I don't kniow why this is so confusing to you.

You: "And anyone reading Matthew knows that God's approach is not to blast the sinner as hopeless, but to seek the lost sheep in the brambles to take him home."

Again, anyone that reads the Bible, not just Isaiah, Micah or Matthew KNOW that there is ALL kinds of sin out there! God's approach is not to minimize sin and make up excuses for it. If anything is it God who DOES blast the sinner in no uncertain terms about sin. It is Jesus who speaks the most about hell. Hell is so awful that He talks about it to make an impression. It's sweet to give the lost sheep story but the fact is that too many "lost sheep" don't get "blasted" or rebuked enough to turn away from sin. Too many are compromising sin down so as to not hurt feelings and to be more at ease with worldy views. This is wrong and a mistake. I'd rather see people go to heaven than hell. I hope you reconsider your beliefs.

126 posted on 07/28/2002 12:40:52 PM PDT by nmh
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