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To: archy
Thanks for the well informed post.

My point on the Galil is that it's not an AK - the gas system and rotating bolt are as closely related to Stoner's design as they are Kalashnikov's, although you could argue the AR180 was an evolved AK.

The Uzi is a subgun and thus not in the same category.

Most M16 Carbines in IDF service are in fact CAR15 variants, not true M4's. The collapsible buttstock design for the M4 has gone through several design evolutions, but they are still fragile compared to fixed or folding stock designs. The most recent "ribbed" buttstocks are pretty durable, although they still utilize the same aluminum recoil spring tube as the previous versions.

Didn't know about the PLA rifle, and now that I've started looking, I've found Tavor articles everywhere. So much for being on top of things.

35 posted on 07/24/2002 11:01:39 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: xsrdx
My point on the Galil is that it's not an AK - the gas system and rotating bolt are as closely related to Stoner's design as they are Kalashnikov's, although you could argue the AR180 was an evolved AK.

The Galil is indeed an AK, and shares the gas system and turnbolt locking with the AK and Valmet to such an extent that parts are interchangable between the different weapons. My own Valmet m/62 was eventually rebuilt with Galil parts to Galil specifications, as the barrel threads are identical and the bolt carriers will interchange with their respective 7,62x39 bolt and 5,56mm bolt. One of these days, I'll likely return my Galil to its original chambering, using an extra North Korean AK47 carrier/operating rod, gas piston and bolt assembly I've got leftover from another previous rifle.

The Galil, Valmet and AK all utilize a stud on the bolt to turn the bolt as it reciprocates in the carrier, locking up to the rifle's receiver. The Stoner's bolt also rotates, but instead locks up to an extension of the barrel fitted with recesses for locking multiple bolt lugs, allowing the use of receivers that need not themselves bear the stresses of withstanding barrel locking pressures, allowing light alloy and stamped sheetmetal receivers to be used.

The Uzi is a subgun and thus not in the same category.

Only that its compact design helped pave the way for rifle-caliber bullpups, particularly those from the same source.

Most M16 Carbines in IDF service are in fact CAR15 variants, not true M4's. The collapsible buttstock design for the M4 has gone through several design evolutions, but they are still fragile compared to fixed or folding stock designs. The most recent "ribbed" buttstocks are pretty durable, although they still utilize the same aluminum recoil spring tube as the previous versions.

Most of those in Israeli service that I've fired and handled, of some 200 or so, are rebuilt M16A1 rifle lower receivers, with several variants of replacement carbine upper receivers with shorter [than M16A1 length] barrels. There are some honest-to G_d M4 and M4A1 carbines to be found in Israel, but the 16-inch barreled upper as per the American semiauto *AR-15/ CAR15 sporter* is also very commonly found atop an M16A1 lower.... and they're also sometimes cut down to shorter barrel lengths as well.

Didn't know about the PLA rifle, and now that I've started looking, I've found Tavor articles everywhere. So much for being on top of things.

There will be more to come. And Barrett in Tennessee [the folks who make the M82A1 .50 caliber semiauto rifles] have a *Tavor semi* that they exhibited at the last SHOT show, that they hope to have on the market and in production around the time the *Assault Rifle ban* law sunsets around the end of 2004, though their version appears to be based on Galil internals and components. But it should still be worth a look.

-archy-/-

36 posted on 07/24/2002 11:42:42 AM PDT by archy
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