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To: Jack Black
IMI built the Gallil, often considered the Cadillac of AK-47s.

The Galil is actually a hybridized AKM, it incorporates elements of Stoners AR15/AR180 also. The AK cadillac is probably the Valmet.

The AUG and French FAMAS, along with the SA80, are the only other bullpups adopted by major armies, of the three only the AUG has been successfully exported.

Interestingly I've heard little about this rifle in the small arms press, it's been developed quietly.

M4 MWS or SOPMOD is a more flexible choice but perhaps this rifle will be successful.

The IDF is generally intolerant of crap, apparently unlike the UK MOD.

15 posted on 07/24/2002 8:09:01 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: xsrdx
The Galil is actually a hybridized AKM, it incorporates elements of Stoners AR15/AR180 also. The AK cadillac is probably the Valmet.

Well the AR15 and AR180 are quite different. The AR-180 is often described as using an "AK-47 style recoil system", meaning a piston as oppposed to the gas tube of the AR-15. Do you know what parts of the Galil are changed. One that is obvious is the folding stock, which is a clone of the FN-FAL PARA folding stock.

I've handled but never shot the Gallil in both .308 and .223 and the workmanship was excellent. I've never handled a Valmet, by I own some other Sako guns and they are super high quality. I believe the Valmet was (is?) built by Sako (which was really just Finnish National Arms in the 70s ... now it's a part of Beretta!)

A few other nominees for Cadallac of AK-47s would be the Robarms imported VEPR. It's built on the thicker RPK machinegun reciever stampings - making it much more rigid, and thus accurate (and heavier) than most other AKs. Mechanisms are identical.

Another might be the Arsenal Arms built SAM-7, built in Nevada using blueprints from Bulgaria! They machine the recievers, unlike almost all other current production AKs which stamp them. Funny to see US high tech know how and expensive forge and machine manufacturing being used to build a rifle that was designed to be stamped out cheaply in 3rd world hell holes. Things really come full circle. Below, SAM-7 Classic

ROBARMS WEB SITE

ARSENAL ARMS WEB SITE

AK-47.NET DISCUSSION BOARD

28 posted on 07/24/2002 10:07:03 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: xsrdx
The Galil is actually a hybridized AKM, it incorporates elements of Stoners AR15/AR180 also. The AK cadillac is probably the Valmet.

Hardly. The AKM utilizes a stamped/pressed receiver; the Galil was not only developed from Finnish Valmet m/62 receivers, but Israel Galili's first prototypes were actually built on Finnish-marked receivers, using American 1:12 twist barrels and Stoner M63 automatic rifle magazines. The milled-receiver rk/62 Valmet's are indeed hell for stout, but have been superseded by the stamped receiver Valmet m/76 more akin to the AKM, though the m/76 has itself been replaced in Finnish military service by the newer rk95TP- which has reverted to a milled receiver again.

The AUG and French FAMAS, along with the SA80, are the only other bullpups adopted by major armies, of the three only the AUG has been successfully exported.

It's unclear how widespread the issue of the new bullpup the Chinese PLA has developed, but it appears to be in the hands of their airborne and Naval Landing Force [Marines] at least. And of course the enormously successful Uzi submachinegun can be considered a bullpup itself.

Interestingly I've heard little about this rifle in the small arms press, it's been developed quietly.

There've been stories in Jane's International Defense Review, Small Arms Review, Gun World, and Soldier of Fortune, at least. Even the SFOR Informer had a short but detailed article on the things.

M4 MWS or SOPMOD is a more flexible choice but perhaps this rifle will be successful.

And hopefully less fragile. Lots of M4 buttstocks breaking off in Israeli service I hear, which leaves the gun unfirable. The Israelis had such difficulties with cut-down M16 carbines being crushed and broken aboard their armoured vehicles that cutdown Galil *Glilon* shorty carbines instead replaced the Uzi as the Israeli tankists' off-vehicle weaponry.

The IDF is generally intolerant of crap, apparently unlike the UK MOD.

The Israelis will certainly use a less than desirable bit of gear until something better comes along, but their real brilliance is in carefully noting intirm fixes and field expedients from their troops in the field, and often adopting those modifications as upgrades service-wide. One thing the Israeli supply and ordnance branches do not have is a *Not invented Here* rejection factor- they happily steal from the best they can find, almost as if their lives depended on doing so....

-archy-/-

32 posted on 07/24/2002 10:22:52 AM PDT by archy
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