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2nd Bug Expert Bolsters Westerfield Defense: (Dusek Melting Down Before Juries Eyes!!)
NBC/San Diego ^ | July 22, 2002 | NBC/San Diego

Posted on 07/22/2002 3:02:31 PM PDT by FresnoDA

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To: VRWC_minion
That does ring a bell--..so it sounds like the jury needs to have that explained the way Lee or whoever it was explained it to the OJ jury..cuz I betcha it was explained. An educated jury is a fair jury...

probability webpage

921 posted on 07/23/2002 9:27:12 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: VRWC_minion
I suggest you review the testimony by the last bug expert, I found it very convincing. Flies will be there(body) absolutely. Natural openings and moisture provide sufficient moisture. Body was dumped later, 12-20th. If body was in MH compartment human could smell it in 3 days. Not mentioned but I believe dogs noses are 200 times more sensitive than humans. IMO withou rebutal from another certified expert, the body wasn't put there by DW.
922 posted on 07/23/2002 9:30:26 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: VRWC_minion

Although forensic entomology can be very effective in determining elapsed time since death, it has its limitations :-

  1. The temperature of the death site is obviously a very important factor, but few criminals are thoughtful enough to kill their victim right underneath a weather station! In most cases, the weather records come from several miles away. We are trying to overcome this by setting up a miniature weather station at the death site after discovery, to compare these data with that from the weather station, in order to determine the difference between the two sites, if any. Also the microclimate of the corpse itself will be slightly different from the surrounding area, especially if a maggot mass is present. Therefore, it is extremely important to know whether masses are present.
  2. Forensic entomology in Canada is seasonal, that is, it is only commonly used in spring, summer, and fall when insects are abundant. It is of less use in winter, unless its very mild, as there are no or very few insects present. This can be a limitation, but can also be an advantage as I can sometimes show that a victim found in spring was killed the previous fall if insect evidence is present.
  3. The results are not immediate, as it takes time to rear the insects. DNA evidence is now being developed to speed up identification of immature specimens.
  4. The body may have been disposed of in a way that excludes insects e.g.
  1. freezing - if the body was frozen for a period of time before being placed outside on, for example, 8 May, the insects would only invade then, giving the misleading impression that death had occurred on 8 May. However, other forensic experts would be able to determine whether or not the body has been frozen, and insect evidence will still determine time of exposure.
  2. burial - if the body is buried deeply, then most insects will be excluded. However, most criminal burials are not very deep, as the aim is merely to conceal the body, and most insects will dig down to the body, particularly if there is blood soaked in the soil. Therefore, insect evidence can still be used. We have an estensive database for buried bodies in BC
  3. wrapped - if the body is wrapped or packaged in some way the insects may be excluded, but the wrapping must be completely secure. A body part was found sealed in a garbage bag which had been tied securely at the top, but the remains were maggot-infested, and showed severe insect damage. The adult females had probably laid their eggs at the knot, and the minute first instar larvae had crawled in.
  1. More research is needed. Insect succession varies from geographic region to region and the species and time of colonization must be developed for all areas using this type of evidence. Research has been conducted in British Columbia in a variety of habitats, seasons and geographic areas to develop a database for this Province. It is intended that this will be extended across Canada.
  2. Drugs - the presence of drugs may affect the development of the insects. Work is planned to determine effects of common narcotics on insects in Canada

923 posted on 07/23/2002 9:33:10 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: rolling_stone
the talking head is saying that the defense might still call Cyril Wycht?, pathologist....to confirm that her body was indeed in the condition of a 2 week corpse as opposed to 3 1/2.

Also trying to decide to call expert or experts on the Channel 8 videotape of Dehesa.

Does not sound like he is going to be calling Bill Libby or any other witness.....may start tommorows testimony by resting his case.

924 posted on 07/23/2002 9:34:25 AM PDT by Rheo
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To: All
~NEW THREAD ALERT~
925 posted on 07/23/2002 9:35:54 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: rolling_stone
Flies will be there(body) absolutely

What evidence did he provide to support this conclusion ?

926 posted on 07/23/2002 9:36:28 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
"It also implies that someone attempted to remove them. If she was only there a short period of time its not likely a hair would be left and less likely it would end up in the trap.

Add to that two other unlikely events and the explanation she played there strains reason.

Many of us posting here have shared various experiences we have had as 7 Y.O. children (or so), that included playing in neighbor's boats, trailers, garages and even cars. Others, have shared experiences, they have had with neighbor children playing in their RV's. So frankly, minion, it's difficult, for me, to understand why it "strains reason" in your particular case.

As for your implication that someone tried to remove Danielle's hair from the MH, that IMO, does tend to strain reason. There was hair, of all types, found throughout the MH and much of it was varying shades of blond. If you can explain how you hypothesize, that DW selectively found, identified and disposed of only Danielle's hair, I would be very interested in hearing your theory.

927 posted on 07/23/2002 9:38:28 AM PDT by theirjustdue
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To: VRWC_minion
18 years experience.
928 posted on 07/23/2002 9:39:53 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone
Found this article which shows a similar problem with the bug guy dates and the interesting thing to me is both bodies were in desert. Is there a problem with the science when it comes to deserts ? The error rate is about the same.

Death row inmate hopes gruesome bugs can win his freedom

The Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) ---- A man awaiting execution on Arizona's death row is pinning one of his final attempts at salvation on a bunch of unlikely saviors: maggots.

Anthony Spears, 41, convicted of murdering Jeanette Beaulieu and dumping her body in the desert, has maintained his innocence since his 1992 arrest. Eight years later, he's sticking to his story ---- and hoping a study of the maggots found on her body can save him.

Beaulieu's body was found Jan. 19, 1992, at a shooting range east of Phoenix. She had been shot in the back of the head. Based on the decomposition of her body, a medical examiner put the murder date at Jan. 4.

However, forensic entomologist David Faulkner ---- who recently examined the flesh-eating maggots found crushed and preserved in Beaulieu's clothing ---- says the date of death is more likely between Jan. 10 and 12.

Spears was at home near San Diego on those dates.

Faulkner said the maggots couldn't have been much older than 10 days when they were mummified in clothing removed from the victim shortly after her body was found. That would rule out Jan. 4 as a possible date for the murder unless the body was frozen at some point, he said.

With capital punishment under growing national scrutiny, the case is a twist on more traditional avenues of appeal, including DNA testing of evidence.

Studying the life span and development of insects found at crime scenes can help determine the date of a victim's death. Faulkner said it takes only moments for the insects to appear after someone dies.

He has studied insects at crime scenes since 1981 and is the head of the entomology department at the San Diego Natural History Museum. A second forensic entomologist, Dr. Rich Merritt of Michigan State University, is scheduled to view the maggot samples next week.

The samples were not studied during Spears' 1992 trial. Faulkner and Merritt were hired to look at Beaulieu's case by friends of Spears' wife, Janet ---- who married Spears after serving as the foreman of the jury that convicted him.

Though the jury unanimously convicted Spears of first-degree murder, she said she was never convinced and was "beat up mentally" by other jurors who were tired and wanted her to make a final decision. The day after the verdict was read, she told the judge she'd made a mistake.

It was too late. Spears was sentenced to death in 1993.

Janet Spears, now a third-year law student in San Diego, said she began visiting Spears after rereading transcripts from his trial. They were married in 1994.

"The only way he could've have killed her is if he killed her from California," she said.

Lawyers for Spears will have to submit the new maggot theory to the trial court if they hope to win his freedom.

Spears filed a motion himself in Arizona Supreme Court on June 2, saying that his lawyer, Jess Lorona, had mostly ignored him in the last two years. Lorona did not return messages for comment.

Kent Cattani, chief of the Arizona attorney general's death penalty appeals unit, refused to discuss the merits of Spears' claim. Pati Urias, a spokeswoman for the attorney general, said Spears' conviction was fair.

Although Spears was not in Arizona when Faulkner says Beaulieu was killed ---- Jan. 10-12 ---- he was in the state on Jan. 4, the day the state says she was killed.

He had flown to Phoenix on Jan. 2 with a one-way airline ticket purchased by the 39-year-old Beaulieu, and he brought a 9mm handgun with him, according to court documents. A shell casing determined to be from that gun was found among the thousands of others at the shooting range a week and a half after Beaulieu's body was found.

Spears drove back to California on Jan. 4 in a truck he bought from Beaulieu. San Diego authorities found a notarized title from Beaulieu in the glove compartment.

Evidence presented during the trial demonstrated that Spears plotted to kill Beaulieu to steal her truck, guns and about $1,000 the victim obtained through cash advances on her credit card.

"I see a big error here," said Janet Spears. "My purpose is not to say the death penalty is wrong. But if you're going to execute somebody, you'd better be damn sure you've got the right person."

6/15/00

41 posted on 7/23/02 12:40 PM Eastern by VRWC_minion

929 posted on 07/23/2002 9:42:30 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: crystalk
Cyncooper says the day off is due to receipt of a MEDIA TAPE by FELDMAN. the tape is of the Dehesa Rd. site.

Dusek is being allowed time to review and prepare rebuttal.

It may contain something related to the Samantha/Avila case. May not.

My guess. (and this explains Danielle's partial mummification)

Watch for WRAPPED TIGHTLY IN A BLUE SHEET LIKE A COCOON.

930 posted on 07/23/2002 9:43:28 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Henrietta
You can't just go thru and pick out sentences out of context and then say that they mean what you want them to mean.

Why not? That is how the whole approach to the Westerfield case was done ! (/sarcasm) :)

931 posted on 07/23/2002 9:46:14 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: VRWC_minion
the difference in that case seems to be from ME and entomologist opinions not one entomologist to another, ME's cannot reliably predict TOD after 3 days...
932 posted on 07/23/2002 9:48:43 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: basscleff
Well, yes they are. But forum protocol specifies that you should include anyone you refer to in the TO: section.

That way it is clear to everyone exactly who you mean. Just in case the wrong person mistakes who the statement is directed at.

If you can't say who, probably better not to say it.

:)

933 posted on 07/23/2002 9:49:37 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: theirjustdue
Many of us posting here have shared various experiences we have had as 7 Y.O. children (or so), that included playing in neighbor's boats, trailers, garages and even cars. Others, have shared experiences, they have had with neighbor children playing in their RV's. So frankly, minion, it's difficult, for me, to understand why it "strains reason" in your particular case.

My kids would have left more than two prints in one spot. The likelihood that my kid leaves a few hairs is probable but that one of them ends up in a sink trap is next to nil assuming he was only there a short time. Add to that the odd's my kid was bleeding at the same time all add up to straining the possibilites.

Finally the lack of testimony that even one kid played there is very troubling. As for your implication that someone tried to remove Danielle's hair from the MH, that IMO, does tend to strain reason. There was hair, of all types, found throughout the MH and much of it was varying shades of blond.

If you can explain how you hypothesize, that DW selectively found, identified and disposed of only Danielle's hair, I would be very interested in hearing your theory.

He didn't Danielles hair was there.

934 posted on 07/23/2002 9:49:43 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: rolling_stone
18 years experience.

So virtually no evidence that flies would act differently in a desert environment. No studies, no papers etc .

See the other article I posted. I bet the science has some holes in it when it comes to desert environment.

935 posted on 07/23/2002 9:51:35 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: rolling_stone
the difference in that case seems to be from ME and entomologist opinions not one entomologist to another, ME's cannot reliably predict TOD after 3 days...

We apparently have the same dilemma here where the ME says the body has been dead much longer than the bug guys. My guess is that there theories may not work the same in the desert.

936 posted on 07/23/2002 9:53:10 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: UCANSEE2
see- ucansee:

You are blowing my mind.....
937 posted on 07/23/2002 9:53:30 AM PDT by juzcuz
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To: VRWC_minion
Spears' wife, Janet ---- who married Spears after serving as the foreman of the jury that convicted him.

Just when you think you've heard it all....

938 posted on 07/23/2002 9:54:33 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: rolling_stone
I could be totally misdirected on this, but watch for

"Wrapped tightly in a blue sheet like a cocoon."

939 posted on 07/23/2002 9:54:57 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: VRWC_minion
The body was not in the desert, he took into account the weather, Sant Ana winds, moisture, animals, mummification etc. They discussed literature about bodies in Arizona and mummification at length.
Everything Dusek tried to gain failed. I watched a video of the tetimony again and I am convinced, I suggest you listen to it or read the transcript and reach your own conclusion.
940 posted on 07/23/2002 9:56:08 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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