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'China Times': US Offers Taiwan Israeli-Designed Subs
Jerusalem Post | July 22, 2002 | Arieh O'Sullivan

Posted on 07/22/2002 10:21:49 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen

The United States, which has promised to sell Taiwan eight submarines, has offered the island to choose between models designed by Germany and Israel, the mass-circulation China Times newspaper reported yesterday.

The Chinese-language daily, quoting unidentified sources, said a team of US officials told the island that Israel's Dolphin class submarine is another option besides German-designed vessels. Both types are built in Germany.

The US delegation, which held secret talks with Taiwan officials last week, asked the military to present its needs before Washington makes a final decision, the report said.

Taiwan's Defense Ministry declined to comment.

After US President George W. Bush offered last year to sell Taiwan up to eight diesel-powered submarines, the question of who would build them for Taiwan has been up in the air. The US has not manufactured diesel submarines since the 1950s and European countries such as Germany and the Netherlands have said they would not export submarines to the diplomatically isolated island, because of fears of angering China.

Beijing views Taiwan as a breakaway province and has threatened to attack if the democratic island declares independence or drags its feet on unification talks.

Washington fears China's military buildup could tip the delicate balance of power in the Taiwan Strait in favor of Beijing as soon as 2005 and has promised to help avoid that. Taiwan has long sought to upgrade its fleet of four submarines, which includes a pair dating from World War II and two Dutch-made Zwaardvis class submarines.

Taiwan Defense Minister Tang Yiau-ming said last month the United States has repeatedly assured Taiwan it is able to complete the submarine deal and was assessing qualified shipbuilders around the world.

Germany has denied that it had opened the door to exporting state-of-the-art conventional submarines to Taiwan by allowing a US investor to buy a German shipyard that makes them.

The Israeli-designed Dolphin submarines are built in the Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft shipyards in Kiel, Germany. But the design of the state-of-the-art electric/diesel submarine belongs to Israel. A naval official said that Israel has a contract with the German consortium providing it would receive the profits from every tenth submarine eventually ordered or produced for third countries.

So far, no other nation's navy has ordered the Dolphin-class design; Taiwan would be the first.

The Dolphin is built according to Israeli specifications gleaned from its own experience. Its short and stout shape is tailor made for Israel's special needs and it reportedly has considerable commando capability. It has a crew of 35 plus 10, a maximum speed of 20 knots, and its maximum diving depth is less than 200 meters.

The Dolphin has a range of 4,500 kilometers and according to Jane's Defense Weekly it has the capability to launch cruise missiles with nuclear warheads.

Israel has three Dolphin-class submarines. Germany donated two of the $320 million subs and paid for half of the third.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: china; taiwan

1 posted on 07/22/2002 10:21:49 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I am proud of us and GW. China needs somone to jab them in the nose.
2 posted on 07/22/2002 10:25:51 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou; tallhappy; B4Ranch; maui_hawaii; t-shirt; Hopalong; backhoe; Rain-maker; Slyfox; ...
GW can kiss my @SS! He sure wont get my vote again but its better that Gore...I suppose. Anyway, her is a ping for the Sub situation with Taiwan.
3 posted on 07/22/2002 9:43:55 PM PDT by Enemy Of The State
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To: Enemy Of The State
GW can kiss my @SS! He sure wont get my vote again but its better that Gore

Then you do support Gore or Hillary.

4 posted on 07/23/2002 7:10:32 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: tallhappy
Then you do support Gore or Hillary.

Are they going to be the candidates?
5 posted on 07/23/2002 7:16:49 AM PDT by Registered
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To: tallhappy
Why do I have to support any of them? Hell, I may throw my vote to the Green party the next time.
6 posted on 07/23/2002 2:54:47 PM PDT by Enemy Of The State
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To: Stand Watch Listen
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020730-69533722.htm
Israel to help U.S. build Taiwan's subs
By Abraham Rabinovich
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

JERUSALEM — Israel has offered technological help in building American submarines for Taiwan, provided it can do so without angering China, a leading Israeli newspaper reported yesterday.

According to a report in the newspaper Ha'aretz, Israel has conditionally offered to provide key planning input in the construction of Dolphin-class submarines in an American shipyard for Taiwan.

The Bush administration agreed to sell Taiwan eight of the submarines.

Israel's condition is that its involvement in the submarine deal between the United States and Taiwan not adversely affect its own relations with China.

These were rocked two years ago when Israel canceled the sale to China of its Phalcon airborne reconnaissance system under American pressure.

For Israel, the advantage of involvement in the submarine project is that it would indirectly permit it to expand its own submarine fleet, seen as an increasingly vital strategic arm intended to offset the threat of nuclear weapons that Iran and other Muslim countries are seeking to acquire.

Israel currently has three Dolphin-class subs that reportedly are able to fire nuclear-tipped missiles. Since Israel's small size makes it particularly vulnerable to missile attack, the submarines, with their second-strike capacity, are regarded as a prime deterrent.

Several European countries, reluctant to antagonize China, have refused Taiwan's submarine-purchase request. These countries include Germany, where the Dolphins were originally designed and built.

But with the Bush administration having agreed to the request, two American firms, Northrop Grumman and General Dynamics, are competing for the contract.

However, the United States for the past 50 years has produced submarines powered by nuclear reactors, whereas Taiwan is seeking conventional subs.

The Dolphin is a conventional sub, but the version built in Germany for Israel contains major, Israeli-initiated, modifications.

Israel has records of manufacturing plans for the vessels. Apart from silos for ballistic missiles, the submarine has exit hatches for commandos.

According to Ha'aretz, Israel has offered Northrup its knowhow in the construction of the Dolphins because Israel is interested in seeing a Dolphin assembly line established in the United States.

Such vessels could then be acquired by Israel with the defense aid it receives annually from the United States. Because of concern over how Beijing might react, Israel and Northrop officials agreed to omit any reference to Israel in the sales pitch made to Taiwan and to refer to the vessels as "Dolphin-design submarines developed in a German dockyard."

7 posted on 07/30/2002 8:33:02 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: rmlew
Israel has offered technological help in building American submarines for Taiwan, provided it can do so without angering China

Good for Taiwan to be getting this aid at last; bad for Israel to be so deluded in its concerns.

[Shaul Eisenberg opened the Israel-China arms trade in 1980 and died in Beijing of a heart attack in 1997. Denise Rich's father is Emil Eisenberg, who engineered her marriage to Marc, and bankrolled his success. The merest coincidence.]

What is it about "angering China" that makes eunuchs of most of the known world?

Business is business to arms dealers, to be sure.

But Beijing is being sanctioned for aiding Iran's nuclear program--Iran the home of the madrassahs.

Yet Israel does not wish to "anger China"?

[. . .is my face hurting the sole of your boot?]

8 posted on 07/30/2002 8:45:51 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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