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Todays Stock Market Thread (DJIA 7784.58 (-234.68; -2.93%) NASDAQ 1282.55 (-36.60; -2.77%)

Posted on 07/22/2002 9:58:15 AM PDT by newsperson999

Dow 7,784.93 -234.33 (-2.92%)
Nasdaq 1,288.09 -31.06 (-2.35%)
S&P 500 819.51 -28.25 (-3.33%)


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS:
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BLACK FRIDAY..Interesting article here
1 posted on 07/22/2002 9:58:15 AM PDT by newsperson999
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To: newsperson999
SELL!!SELL!!SELL!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!
2 posted on 07/22/2002 9:59:09 AM PDT by Huck
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To: newsperson999

It looks like the market wants to bounce around at the 7800 level.

3 posted on 07/22/2002 10:00:22 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: newsperson999
Not to worry -- CBS news is reporting today that the experts say that the more the stock market drops, the closer it is to bottoming out. How's that for an intelligent theory? Arne't you glad we have the wisdom of the experts?

Carolyn

4 posted on 07/22/2002 10:02:14 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: newsperson999
A repeat of Black MONDAY in 1987?

I don't think this is over,..and probably won't be until after August 14th. I think it will bounce back up hugely,.. and be sporadic for a while. But as some here mentioned when this all started a couple years ago, DJ 6 to 7 thousand isn't so far fetched anymore. Some have even suggested 5k.

A much needed correction. The time to invest is coming.. but it isn't today, or tomorrow, definetly not until after all corps have posted on the 14th of August.

Thanks for the article.. I'm off to read it now. I'm surprized there isn't more on FR about all this.
5 posted on 07/22/2002 10:02:33 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Agree on the Aug-14 deadline for CEO's to certify their financial statements. Wall Street doesn't like uncertainty, and it's anything but certain that accounting standards have gone the way of "what the meaning of 'is', is" over the past several years.
6 posted on 07/22/2002 10:05:27 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
The bears have convinced people it's not worth the bother until PEs are back to 17. It's not going to go that low barring a nuke attack because of productivity. You think the auto makers who pumped out vegas and pintos deserve the same pe as the ones who pump out luminas and taurus'. Wait, don't answer that.
7 posted on 07/22/2002 10:07:37 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: CDHart
Yeah. At least it can't go below zero . . . can it?
8 posted on 07/22/2002 10:07:59 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: newsperson999
Since you have the hyperlink in post 1, there is no reason we can't post this article. They give permission as long as you hyperlink, which you did. So here it is in it's entirety. I'd say it has innuendos bashing President Bush, but I can look past that, as many of their points are valid.

Heck, just to be legal.. here is the hyperlink to the article I'm posting: http://www.etherzone.com/2002/henr072902.shtml

BLACK FRIDAY
DOUBLE WHAMMY

By: Ed Henry

Friday, July 19, 2002, the stock market plunged almost 400 points and the U.S. Treasury posted its Monthly Report for June, 2002. Here's what the bank statement reported:

The Social Security Trust Fund went up $46.4 billion for an increase so far this year of $145 billion. That's very close to the $148.6 billion increase reported last year at this time despite high unemployment.


Last year, the government stole $98.7 billion from Social Security alone, tacked on another $64 billion in interest, and ended up with an increase of $162.7 billion in a trust fund that holds nothing but debt.

The two trusts that make up this criminal fund, Federal Old Age & Survivors Insurance and Federal Disability Insurance, now total $1.315 trillion and amount to 21.4 percent of the national debt. We give them money—they give us debt in return.

The federal government continues to steal our entitlement money so that politicians and trustees can not only spend it elsewhere but also tell us that they are increasing the lifespan of Social Security to at least 2041 by latest estimates. This scam can go on extending the life of Social Security forever or at least until their nonexistent baby-boomer fable enters the picture. The trust fund goes up, so the life of Social Security is extended. The more they steal, the longer the supplemental retirement system will last. How's that for fraud and hiding debt?

When they come around asking to be re-elected, we should all be demanding politicians explain in detail—how on earth our surplus contributions for retirement became 21.4 percent of the national debt. This magical transubstantiation of a positive into a negative is many times worse than anything Enron, WorldCom, or any private enterprise ever did to deceive people.

The government not only stole our retirement money, they put us more than 130 percent in the hole with these bogus IOU bonds and then adding compounding annual debt interest with more of the same. And there are still nitwits out there who believe stock market investments would be too risky. These lame-brains think the possibility of losing it all is much worse than the guarantee of going in the hole by trillions.

At the same time, the two Medicare trust funds went up $14.3 billion for a total of $271.5 billion now accounting for 4.4 percent of the national debt.

What will happen if Social Security, Medicare, and other large entitlement trusts must ever turn to their trust funds for operating cash? The answer is that you will be paying the same taxes again, plus interest. The Pay-It-Again Sam scam.

This is happening right now, today, on a smaller scale as some of the other trust funds are drawing down on their spurious holdings. This means that you were double taxed last month as follows:

Plagued by shutdowns, increased security, and fewer flyers, the Department of Transportation (DOT) turned to its Airport and Airways trust fund for $1.1 billion last month. This money came from the Treasury's General Fund of income and corporate taxes to repay taxes already paid once before. Now standing at $13.3 billion in debt markers, this trust fund represents taxes that were already paid by travelers, money that was stolen by the government and spent elsewhere. Now, you are repaying it from general taxes and doing without something else, like education or defense, that might otherwise have been provided with that money.

Highways withdrew $6.1 billion in the Department of Transportation's continuing repair of Interstate Highways. This was money that was already paid from gas taxes for which you are now being double billed because the government spent that money elsewhere and put bogus bonds in the Highway Trust Fund, then added annual interest by simply handing the trust more bogus bonds. The DOT still has $20.6 billion in the Highway trust fund to double bill you.

The Unemployment Trust Fund, for obvious reasons, withdrew $12.1 billion from the Treasury during June. This trust still holds $76.9 billion in debt markers from employers who paid this money oiginally. Now, the general tax-paying public is paying it a second time. The Beltway Bandits would have you pay it a third time if they could figure out how to do it.

Does anyone in the nation's Fourth Estate mention any of this? Absolutely not. The "penetrating" news services are all off in Mayberry interviewing Goober, Floyd, the Sheriff, Aunt Bee and other politicians. None of them ever go to the source, the nation's bank, because they choose to deal in hearsay.

In fact, the nation's number one daily (except weekends) newspaper, USA Today, on its front page is still reporting the "yield" on a 30 year Treasury bond that doesn't even exist. The Treasury took the long term 30 year bond off the market in February of this year in response to the administration's plans to launder the honest part of the national debt to entitlements on the dishonest side. (see "Surprise")

Here's the actual trust fund table from the Treasury's "Monthly Statement of Receipts and Outlays of the United States Government" for the month of June, 2002.


You can download the full report at: http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/index.html

With three months still to go in the government's fiscal year, the Bush administration has already increased the national debt $319 billion. We have returned to borrowing additional money (not just replacing maturing bonds) from investors for the first time in four years and that portion of the debt is up $125 billion so far this year.

Mitch Daniels, the head of the Government Accounting Office (GAO), the President's own accounting firm, now predicts that "the deficit will reach $165 billion" this year.

Please note that the government does not include money stolen, or in their words "borrowed," from Social Security or other entitlements as part of the deficit. They only consider honest borrowing and ignore dishonest borrowing--theft. How's that for hiding debt and crooking the books?

At this rate, the government will again be bumping its head against the brand new debt ceiling of $6.5 trillion by March of next year.

You should also note that EtherZone was the only news outlet in the country telling you that the reason for the emergency to raise the national debt limit last month was so that the government could continue stealing your entitlement money. The rest of the country's "investigative" news people had their heads in the sand (or elsewhere).

Seems like Bush is pursuing his father's 1992 record when the national debt went up $478 billion, almost one-half trillion, in a single year.

It also seems that Dubya has adopted Ronald Reagan's trick of doing things on Friday when there's no one around to stop him. On the last working day of June he managed to raise the national debt $105 billion in a single day. And then he delivered a speech condemning WorldCom for cheating people out of $3.9 billion. How's that for hypocrisy?


"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."

9 posted on 07/22/2002 10:08:46 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: kinghorse
Post more about the certification deadline. That would seem to put a bunch of it behind us. Whoever dreamed that one up was pure genius. It's like ok, your either certifying them or taking the 5th. Kinda removes the uncertainty doesn't it?
10 posted on 07/22/2002 10:09:29 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: kinghorse
You think the auto makers who pumped out vegas and pintos deserve the same pe as the ones who pump out luminas and taurus'.

LOL.. I don't know friend.. I'm just mucking through the mud with everyone else. Trying to figure out the right time to re-invest. This is not an easy decision, but we are going to wait until after Aug. 14, for sure.

11 posted on 07/22/2002 10:11:32 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: kinghorse
Like Stalin's farming genius.
12 posted on 07/22/2002 10:14:10 AM PDT by palmer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Wall Street doesn't like uncertainty, and it's anything but certain that accounting standards have gone the way of "what the meaning of 'is', is" over the past several years."

Agree. What has happened, besides the correction that WAS taking place, is you then had all Bill Clintons bed partners (Ken Lay etc) being exposed, and we started to hear of all the cooked books on top of the correction, AND the war, it all added up to what we are witnessing today. And it is so true.. I love your explanation above. Just takes us back full circle to Clintoon.

13 posted on 07/22/2002 10:14:43 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: JimSEA
I was channel surfing and unfortunately came across CNN a few minutes ago. The quote from the news B***h was that "Bush has done it again"! With reference to todays drop.

Interesting!!!!! Huh! I would say that CNN has done it again! They should be lined up and terminated with extreme prejudice.

14 posted on 07/22/2002 10:15:01 AM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: kinghorse
But does greater productivity lead to greater profits if your competitors all have greater productivity as well? Especially in an environment, like autos, where you are trying to maintain unsustainable sales levels by offering 0% financing that cuts into your bottom line.
15 posted on 07/22/2002 10:15:53 AM PDT by Soren
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To: newsperson999

16 posted on 07/22/2002 10:16:05 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: newsperson999
Mitch Daniels, the head of the Government Accounting Office (GAO), the President's own accounting firm, now predicts that "the deficit will reach $165 billion" this year.

Wow, he has like a million mistakes in just one sentence. There is no Government Accounting Office. It is the General Accounting Office. The GAO works for Congress and not the president. The head of the GAO is David M. Walker and he is the Comptroller General. The GAO is not an accounting office, it's an accountability office which is different. However, Walker did work for Arthur Andersen before 1999-- so he sure knows plenty about accountability. Mitch Daniels is the Director of OMB-- a Cabinet-level appointment-- and he used to work for Eli Lilly.

17 posted on 07/22/2002 10:17:07 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative
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To: newsperson999
I wanted to buy shares in an electric utility on Friday, thinking it was near a low and had good fundamental. Fortunately, I didn't get around to it. That stock has been off as much as 16% today. Arrrggghhh. My portfolio has been dropping 5% a day for a week. This isn't good. Oh well, its only money...
18 posted on 07/22/2002 10:17:11 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: newsperson999
I vote for the first guy mentioning "dead cat bounce" in this thread getting banned for the rest of the day. I HATE that cliche!
19 posted on 07/22/2002 10:17:33 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: newsperson999
Is it just me or does it appear to everyone else that your average FReeper pays little attention to these market threads. It's like many FReepers have an economic/political disconnect.

In my view, this bear capitulation is serious business. I hope we are near the progress of bottoming. This afternoon's close will tell who's got the momentum: the hedge fund shorties and panickers or the buyers. I doubt we'll close any better than 2% down across the major indices.

It's a very odd time. We have a relatively sound economy but an emotive and quite Bearish market. Usually a big Bear like this is accompanied by a poor economy.

20 posted on 07/22/2002 10:17:48 AM PDT by wardaddy
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