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To: tacticalogic
Point taken. Now, given that, how does considering morality an absolute and constitutionality relative and subjective help to advance and preserve the idea of a Contitutionally limited Republic? It takes but a subtle semantic twist of the wrist to go from socializing morality to moralizing socialism.

Sometimes, seemingly conflicting concepts are actually true at the same time. Regarding our Constitutionally limited Republic, there is the way it actually functions, and there is the way it actually is. How it is should depend on its original intent. That, however, is clearly open to interpretation. How it functions, is as much if not more about who does the interpreting than about what it actually is.

That applies to morality as well. There are "the laws of nature and nature's God" which tell us how it IS. But, in practice, it depends on who is doing the defining.

In our system or gov't "of the people, by the people, for the people", the Constitution keeps us only as protected as the knowledge of those doing the interpreting (which depends on the understanding of the people doing the voting).

I do not believe in moral relativity or Constitutional relativity for that matter. But I do believe in functional relativity. That's the way it works in practice. We need to exercise our freedom of speech to persuade the masses to believe in the original intent of the Constitution, absolute morality, etc..or it won't matter what morality really is, or what the FF's intentions were, or what the Constitution really means.

Regarding going from socializing morality to moralizing socialism (clever, btw) that's an excellent point. Aren't we already moralizing socialism but not socializing morality? I don't know, maybe that's how we got around to moralizing socialism -- by socializing morality -- but currently, we are in the later stage, not the former.

Honestly, most of these issues about morality should be addressed and solved in the private sector. No laws required. (It used to be called social taboo I think. Good old fashioned shame.) The laws required are local laws. But to take the position that the gov't has no role ever, at all, in maintaining the desired moral, social norms of a community, is to deny it's people the freedom to organize and assemble a community as they see fit (within the Constitution). That isn't freedom, that's anarchy.

84 posted on 07/21/2002 9:23:43 AM PDT by RAT Patrol
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To: RAT Patrol
Honestly, most of these issues about morality should be addressed and solved in the private sector. No laws required. (It used to be called social taboo I think. Good old fashioned shame.) The laws required are local laws.
But to take the position that the gov't has no role ever, at all, in maintaining the desired moral, social norms of a community, is to deny it's people the freedom to organize and assemble a community as they see fit (within the Constitution). That isn't freedom, that's anarchy. - 84



Under the bill rights, such community 'social norms' are powers guaranteed to the states, ie, - to the people. [10th]
But in 'regulating' such community [public] behavior, the rest of the BORs', and ALL un-enumerated individual rights, [life, liberty, property] - must not be violated. [14th]
Nevada, for instance, regulates public behavior as well or better than most states, while allowing much in private you find 'immoral'.
--Millions of people who live there would be highly amused by your contention that they live in some sort of anarchy.
97 posted on 07/21/2002 1:49:42 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: RAT Patrol
I do not believe in moral relativity or Constitutional relativity for that matter. But I do believe in functional relativity. That's the way it works in practice. We need to exercise our freedom of speech to persuade the masses to believe in the original intent of the Constitution, absolute morality, etc..or it won't matter what morality really is, or what the FF's intentions were, or what the Constitution really means.

Regarding going from socializing morality to moralizing socialism (clever, btw) that's an excellent point. Aren't we already moralizing socialism but not socializing morality? I don't know, maybe that's how we got around to moralizing socialism -- by socializing morality -- but currently, we are in the later stage, not the former.

In terms of what the government's role and proper authority is, it might clear up some of the disagreement and confusion if we didn't try to frame the question in terms of "morality" as a whole. Perhaps what we need to do is try to define and limit the argument to that subset of morality called "civility".

158 posted on 07/22/2002 7:30:42 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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