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To: NYCop
someday you'll be appreciated...

Agriwelfare is more appreciation
than I want to pay for.

15 posted on 07/18/2002 2:29:48 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse; Koblenz
I think your hostility toward farmers is missplaced. 95% of farmers get no subsidies whatsoever. The only ones that get subsidies are agribusinesses that can afford lobbyists and lawyers. Of course a few token farmers are tossed in to make the numbers look good at the Dept of Agriculture. In my county, 23 farmers got a total of $15K in subsidies. That averages to $650 apiece. The money was likely a cost match or loan to pay for some kind of conservation project that the government forced upon them. Small farmers don't get the fat subsidies that you seem to envision. The companies that get these subsidies are Monsanto, Tyson Foods, DuPont, Westvaco, John Hancock Insurance, Chevron, Caterpillar, Boise Cascade Corporation and Archer Daniels Midland. Exactly why an insurance company and an oil company get some of the largest subsidies is beyond me. I suspect it has something to do with their lobbyists.

Its well known that small family owned farms far out produce corporate agribusinesses on a per acre basis. This is because the person working the farm has a huge personal interest in the success of the crop or livestock. Its a livelihood as opposed to a job. Its also in the blood. Your average Tyson employee is not going to stay out in that 95/95% weather until 11PM making hay like I did on Monday night. His exact quote will be "Tyson can kiss my a**!" If you want to see what happens when you let non-owners run a farm, you should look to the former soviet union. Now there is a shining success story. It cost the soviets their country, and they darn near starved to death. As you can see, farmers are actually quite important to national defense.

I agree that some kind of reform needs done. The govt subsidizes anyone who is wealthy enough to have a lobbyist, whether it be the airline industry, the auto industry, the oil industry, the telecomm industry, the shipbuilding indutry, the insurance industry or whoever. Nearly all of the ag subsidies go to massive agribusinesses, which in turn makes it noncompetitive for the small farmers. Left alone, small farmers would be quite happy as long as the country stops subsidizing their competitors. Funding to environmental groups and land trusts should stop. These groups through land purchases and imposition of unethical regulations are making farming non-competitive. They are swiftly driving small farms out of the country. Small farmers don't have the high paid lawyers to fight their government subsidized lawyers.

While we are at it, the USFS should remain under the Dept of Agriculture. Timber is a crop, not some tree hugging weirdo's private playground.

Before you condemn your average American family farmer as welfare scum, you should look and see who they are. Have you ever actually met one? Go to http://govinfo.library.orst.edu/ag-stateis.html and look up your county. One of the many databases there will show you who in your county got a subsidy and how much it was for. You should drive by that guy's house. Most of the money that the govt spends does not impact them whatsoever. Things like subsidized water and sewer systems, highway systems, inner city programs, playgrounds, urban renewal, business development zones, retraining programs and anything with the word infrastructure attached don't mean spit to them. Be sure to look at how the entirety of govt spends your and their taxdollars. Consider things that most farmers do not get like unemployment insurance, earned income tax credits, day care credits, nicely paved roads, good police coverage and cable TV with broadband internet access subsidized by the govt. What about the gasoline that their tractor uses? Over $0.80 of each gallon is spent on highways which they will rarely use, but you will use every day. For each thousand gallons, they spend $800 to make your highway nicer.

Now ask yourself whether that guy in the John Deere hat is sucking more money out of the govt or whether you are.
25 posted on 07/19/2002 8:39:11 AM PDT by FreeInWV
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