Homeland Security or KGB??

WorldNetDaily ^ | July 17, 2002 | Joseph Farah

[ninenot]

U.S. government doesn't trust Americans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: July 17, 2002 1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

We're supposed to have a government of the people, for the people and by the people.

In fact, Americans are largely supposed to govern themselves in the system devised by our brilliant founders.

That is no longer the case because the U.S. government in Washington doesn't trust its citizens.

This sad truth has become crystal clear in the wake of the terror attacks of Sept. 11. Instead of enlisting Americans to fight this evil as past governments have in times of war, this administration, with at least the tacit approval of Congress, has used the attacks as an excuse to clamp down on the civil liberties of Americans and to keep closer tabs on law-abiding citizens. At the same time, the government has demonstrated, time and time again, its own startling inability to use its vast resources to prevent massive attacks on the people and even to recognize and identify from where the threats emanate.

The latest example of the government's alarming plans to target the entire population for more scrutiny is the Terrorism Information and Prevention System, or TIPS. Interestingly, the program came to light not through the reporting of any U.S. press outlets, but through a report in the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia and linked by WorldNetDaily.

Under plans outlined on the government's Citizen Corps website, a pilot program launching next month will enlist some 1 million domestic informants in 10 cities to spy on the people. That could mean, if the plan is carried out nationwide, there will be a government snoop for every 24 Americans.

What that means, the Sydney Morning Herald points out, is that the U.S. would have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany through the dreaded Stasi secret police. At least 4 percent of Americans would participate in TIPS, under the government's plan.

The TIPS snoops will be recruited by the Department of Justice from among citizens whose work provides access to homes, businesses and transport systems – such as letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors.

The informants' reports will enter databases for future reference and possible action within the Justice Department, related agencies and local police forces. Of course, the targets of such spying will have no knowledge of the dossiers being maintained on them.

All this, of course, also comes in the context of other ominous legislation such as the Patriot Act, which permits a person's home to be searched without his or her knowledge. Bugs can be planted, papers can be seized – all prima facie violations of the Fourth Amendment.

Is this America?

What's going on here?

The government hardly has a sterling track record with its paid employees. What makes it think it will get good information from a network of voluntary informants? What's to prevent these people from acting out on grudges with neighbors? How can the information, to be widely shared within government circles and agencies, be verified and ascertained to be legitimate?

These are just some of the questions raised by this dangerous trend toward government non-accountability.

Government plans demonstrate we are clearly moving to an us-against-them mentality. These plans are not designed to protect the citizens of the United States, they are designed to protect government from the people.

Besides making all of us more fearful of our own government, this plan will have the added effect of making us all suspicious of those around us – our mailman, our meter reader, even the friendly train conductor. That's what happened in East Germany and in other totalitarian countries that instituted such draconian plans.

No matter how friendly a face the government attempts to put on this program, it is not going to fly in the USA. Let the word go out now to one and all who might be tempted to participate in such a program – we don't like domestic spies in the United States. We don't like rats. We don't like snitches. We don't like snoops. We don't like them and we don't need them – not here. Not in America. Not now. Not ever.

[Texasforever]

Hell yes.

[Darth Hillary]

Honestly, I love the idea. Especially since this will piss off so many conservatives that I will be the Queen soon, can't you smell it?

< balogna >I won't tell on you, if you don't tell on me, OK? < /balogna >

[Black Agnes]

Actually his scenario is plausible. I see from your profile that you live in TX. Visit NE NJ or NYC for a while. Most of my coworkers can't *wait* to either vote for Gore or Hillary. They'd fall all over one another turning me in because I'm pro-life (might blow up a clinic or something) and pro-gun (why's she need guns? the cops will protect her, maybe she just wants to shoot an abortionist!). These are the same people, one of whom *cried* when Gore conceeded because she'd have to have back alley abortions. She'd TIPs me in a heartbeat if Hillary were president.

The big difference between this and telephone snooping and bank record snooping (not that that can't be fiddled) is that it's completely subjective based on the *opinion* of an individual that might not know you all that well, or have a grudge against you. This type of information is usually not as valuable as the first type. Now, multiply times 1 million tipsters. You just think the airport security nazis are out of control, now imagine that in the cable guy, the meter reader, the postman, the schoolbus driver...etc.

[habaes corpussel]

It is going to get interesting around here....

[Commie Basher]

yeah, but the POSTMAN???

On the positive side, if a mail carrier does inform on someone, the person will have long since moved or died by the time the tip reaches Washington.

[handk]

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Intelligence Debriefing: The East German Stasi.

The infamous Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, a.k.a. the Stasi, was established in April 1950. Similar in structure to the then- operating NKVD (predecessor to the KGB), the Stasi was the secret police force for the communist-controlled German Democratic Republic.

The Stasi used a huge network of informants to repress the citizens of East Germany. It was not uncommon for members of families to spy on each other for fear of blackmail, as a result of physical threats and even because of monetary rewards from the secret police force. In the late ‘80s, the Stasi had nearly 175,000 official informants on their books, roughly one informant for every 100 people. (Some estimate the size of the “unofficial” Stasi informant force as nearly 10 times this level.) The Stasi maintained a force of over 90,000 uniformed and plain-clothes agents.

Aside from their internal operations, the Stasi, in coordination with the KGB, collected external intelligence. (During the early ,80s, the new President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, then a KGB operative, participated in this type of intelligence gathering. See “Russians put their faith in Putin,” above.) The key targets of the Stasi’s external efforts were the U.S. occupational forces in Berlin, U.S. and NATO forces in West Germany, the West German government and military and political bodies of other Western European countries.

The operations of the Stasi, the uniforms they wore and the geographical situation of East and West Berlin made them the perfect ever-present “bad guys” of many Cold War spy novels. However, their portrayal in print was only a shadow of their true and far-reaching influence.

In 1990, when West and East Germany were reunited, the Stasi was dissolved. Many sought retribution for the pain, suffering and even loss of life caused by the East German secret police through the court system. However, a final decision by the unified German court in 1995 stated that former Stasi officials could not be prosecuted for taking part in or conducting Cold War espionage against the West.

 

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[ibme]

Welcome to the USSA...

[Black Agnes]

Lemme ask, are you white, male, and conservative? If so, you just nailed the common perception of the McVeigh profile. Own any guns? wow, you might shoot up an abortion clinic or one of those peaceful mosques. Gotta report you ASAP!

Know how the airport security goons almost *never* pick likely suspects for searches? You my friend would be TIPsed because you are white, male and conservative.

[Texasforever]

You are NOT listening. The ability to make bogus reports and to target white male conservatives are already in place! All ya gotta do is pick up the damned phone.

[Commie Basher]

The big difference between this and telephone snooping and bank record snooping

Sadly, it's not a big difference, it's just another step along a road we've been walking. We've already lost many of our liberties under "special circumstances" (e.g., to "protect the children.")

With federal asset forfeiture, they no longer need to give you due process, or a trial. We've resurrected "debtor's prison" with child support (the govt can jail someone for not earning enough money). Hate crime laws are eroding free speech (the day will come when Bible passages will be considered "hate speech" -- it's already happening in Scandanavia).

All sorts of liberties have been lost in the fight against "terrorists, child molesters, hate criminals, drug traffickers, internet porn." The state always picks the most abhorent example to create an exception to the Constitution, then expands that exception to ... everyone.

[Commie Basher]

The ability to make bogus reports and to target white male conservatives are already in place!

So let's roll back the state infrastructor, rather then expand it.

[Black Agnes]

Centralization *is* the key here. YOU are not listening. Before the STASI, there certainly were ways of reporting crime. STASI wasn't about reporting crime, it was about scaring your neighbor and everyone living in *fear* of what some pissant government official might think or do. Just think of all the wonders of the press generated 'horrors' or McCarthyism, only now the questions will be 'are you now or have you ever been a conservative/gunowner/Christian/etc'? If the means are *already* in place *why* this special operation? Do you honestly think Hillary/Gore wouldn't go for broke with this one?

[Texasforever]

I give up. Yes we are behind the iron curtain.

[Indrid Cold]

The ATF, believe me.

[Indrid Cold]

The ATF, believe me.

[ellery]

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Amerigomag]

Had we been more vigilant in our immigration policy or if we had a coherent immigration policy for that matter the word "American" would not appear in this article.

To get a flavor for this supposition copy the article to a word processor, replace the words American(s) and citizen(s) with the word foreign national(s) or illegal alien(s) and then reread the article.

[BJClinton]

I suppose this could turn into a shouting match that won't get much accomplished. Do we have any hard evidence of the structure it's going to take?

As I understand it, reports go into a database for federal law-enforcement agencies. How will the information be vetted? There are questions that still need to be answered about the whole program. I went to the website http://www.citizenscorp.gov/ and it pulled up nothing. Is there any real info other than the hysteria?

[Texasforever]

A penny saved is a penny earned. I can do clichés' also.