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To: sam_paine; swarthyguy; headsonpikes; ecomcon; FreedomPoster; vannrox; sheik yerbouty
I personally believe that the threat of assymetrical warfare posed by the Chinese is a threat that should be taken quite seriously. And this is for a number of reasons.

First of all assymetrical warfare (AW from now on) has been proven to be a viable mode of war when you need to negate or threaten superior military assets. It worked perfectly in Afghanistan during the 1980s when the CIA helped Usama bin Laden and his fellow mujahadeens (then they were called 'Freedom fighters') fend off Soviet attacks. There they used stinger (and in smaller measures redeye) handhel SAMs to neutralize Soviet helicopter gunships and fighter-bombers. In Vietnam too the Soviets gave 'aid' to the Vietcong by providing sophisticated (for then) SAM systems that wrought havoc on our WildWeasels and other US fighters.

Yet compared to what China is developing today that type of AW was very rudimentary!

There are reports that China has been 'acquring' sophisticated Western and Russian military tech (when i say acquired i mean through direct purchase, indirect purchase, and theft). The following are several examples.

First thing first they have SunBurn missiles! The sunburn is a supersonic missile developed by Russia for one purpose and one purpose only .....destroying American aircraft carriers! They are quite fast, extremely maneuvrable, and able to use a 'ripple effect' where a line of missiles attack at different flight paths, different angles and different speeds, all in a bid to beat the anti-missile defenses of the carrier. China has them.

China also has the J-10 fighter jet, which it developed thanks to the US and Israel! How? The US and Israel were working ona fighter concept called the Lavi which got cancelled in 1987, but somehow some Israeli general decided it was prudent (perhaps financially) to send the prototype details to China. Thus the J-10 was developed.

China also has the J-11 ....which in Russia is known as the Sukhoi-27 Flanker. This is a very advanced jet fighter, ranked better or equal to any western jet (apart from the upcomign F-22 Raptor and possibly the Eurofighter). This Russian jet's specifics were bought by China, and they can now make it indigenously as the J-11. Luckily most Chinese pilots do not seem to be very good pilots and thus have been crashing this very capable jet quite often (LOL) but should they learn how to use it as the Russians do let me just say any American pilot in a F-18 Hornet/SuperHornet will find himself in dire straits!

Plus they got have some Israeli made Python-3 air to air missiles, which are quite advanced (the Python-4 is the best in the world) as well as the Russian R-73 (which by the way is ranked as second best in the ASRAAM category inthe world). Nothing we have can match these missiles that can even be fired laterally from the fighter jet. Some say the also have the R-77 (an extremely advanced AMRAAM) but i personally do not believe the Russians would have sold them such a missile.

China has also been trying to acquire the Shvkal 2 Hypercavitating Rocket torpedo, which travels underwater in an 'envelop' of gases at speeds 4-5 times faster than anything we have. Some say china may have obtained either one of the prototypes of the former Shvkal-1, or working plans of the Shvkal-2.

Then there is the J-12 fighter project that is due for completion a decade from now. The J-12 is a stealth program that utilizes Russian stealth tech (from the Russian stealth prototypes Mig-Mapo 1.42 and the other Russian stealth S-37 Berkerut ...not to be confused with the Su-37 'terminator' which is not stealth). The J-12 is said to be in the same league with the F-22 Raptor and is meant to match it in performance and abilities (although the J-12 will have more gorund attack capabilities).

China has also invested in both the Czech 'Tamara' anti-stealth radar (a relatively rudimentary passive radar suite that can detect stealth aircraft) as well as much more advanced Russian anit-stealth detection devices.

Anyway the purpose of AW for China is not to make them win any wars with the US! Nope, that would never happen because the US is just too strong for China to stop directly. What AW is for is to cause sufficient casualties on the American side to cause the American population back home to reconsider the fight and call back the soldiers. After all China is banking that Americans back here will not let there people die in the protection of Taiwan. Imagine what the populace would do if two aircraft carriers were sunk with all hands on board. There would be many calling for the immediate destruction of China, even using nukes .....but many more would start questioning what American soldiers are doing defending Taiwan and a Vietnam situation would develop where they are calling for immediate withdrawal.

That is why AW by the Chinese should be looked at carefully.

15 posted on 07/15/2002 4:29:23 PM PDT by spetznaz
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To: spetznaz
thanks for that run-down.

Many have underestimated the americans in the past.

19 posted on 07/15/2002 5:04:09 PM PDT by Red Jones
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To: spetznaz
Munro and Bernstein, The Coming Conflict with China, 1997, suggest China has four strategic objectives:

1) U.S. out of Asia;
2) Japan neutralized;
3) SoKo absorbed;
4) Taiwan absorbed.

Unrestricted Warfare, by Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui (Beijing: PLA Literature and Arts Publishing House, February 1999) suggests asymmetric means to accomplish these ends.

As noted, China uses sock puppet North Korea, and its proliferation clients as deniable agents, trained Al Qaeda/Taliban, works with Mexico, Venezuela, Panama and others to thwart our aims--even as Henry the K said we ought not thwart theirs.

China is the biggest customer of Russia's Arms 'R' Us, buying a third and fourth Sovremenny destroyer with Moskits, eight Kilos, Su-30's, while loading up on IRBMs (350 headed for 600) opposite Taiwan.

Meanwhile economic unrest and instability from unemployment riots to major bank insolvency loom. Jiang has cooked the books, exaggerating growth while understating weapons expenditures.

China will exploit our preoccupation with Iraq or some future terrorist attack to bully Taiwan.

They rely heavily on a perceived softness, viz Xiong Guangkai offering to charbroil L.A.--then being Clinton's guest in the White House January 24-26, 2000, to "reestablish military-to-military connections".

Surely they parleyed their arms status to a quantum-leap generational improvement by the Loral-Hughes 1995 200-page fax, and the work of burros like Wen Ho Lee (pobrecito "victim" of "profiling").

We are the great hegemon, and the EP-3C incident should have cleared away any doubt.

Cuba's Russian sigint base at Lourdes was closed this year, and China takes its place, recently spoofing New York air traffic control into thinking it was U.S. military.

Jiang is being glorified and may seek a dramatic gain to cement his defying statute and remaining in power.

Certainly we live in interesting times.

22 posted on 07/15/2002 5:30:35 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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To: spetznaz
Nope, that would never happen because the US is just too strong for China to stop directly.

With Russia as a first strike, the AW of the Chinese is a great second punch. If Russia and China teamed, with China supplying the ground forces and Russia the Technology, the US with its Clintonesta half an army would be in dire straits. A plum ripe for the plucking. Now if we were to ship all our army over seas to quell brush fires started by the marxists and IslamoNazis It would be an unguarded plum.

Too bad they did, and we did... To bad, so sad...

62 posted on 07/15/2002 11:37:31 PM PDT by American in Israel
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To: spetznaz
"...Shvkal 2 Hypercavitating Rocket torpedo,
which travels underwater in an 'envelop' of gases at speeds 4-5 times faster than anything we have..."
# 15 by spetznaz

*************************

If the hypercavitating "envelope of gasses" can increase a torpedoes' speed that much, I predict that a submarine propulsion drive will be developed from the same hypercavitating technology.

84 posted on 07/16/2002 7:41:17 AM PDT by exodus
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To: belmont_mark
Ping to #15.
88 posted on 07/16/2002 9:21:11 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: spetznaz
"Luckily most Chinese pilots do not seem to be very good pilots and thus have been crashing this very capable jet quite often (LOL) but should they learn how to use it as the Russians do"

I bet there are a lot of qualified Ex Soviet/Russian fighter pilots who are already mercenaries for the Chicoms.
135 posted on 06/02/2004 5:10:23 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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