Chinese fixated on winning war against US via "assassin's mace."

U.S.-China Commission ^ | 7/15/2002 | Richard D'Amato

[kinghorse]

In my best Carlito's Way voice

Que pas-o Vato! I wus wondering how muh homey pendejo hue was hanging. El culero pinche cabrone esta en la casa! Chingala hue, good to see you there homey?

Let's see if I remember any more border slang from muh days living in the El Paso badlands. I hope I didn't say anything bad. Frankly everything sounds bad when you give it the border bravado brah!

Me and my homeys are going over to Chicos Tacos in a little while to pick up some flautas, gorditos, cheese queso, green chile caudillo stew, some chalupas and chile verde burritos. Oh and everyone who knows better will tell you USA Coke nolo contendre with Coke hecho en Mexico. Take your la garrota and jam it up your bean hole compadre.

[Map Kernow]

Note that in each case that it's been tried, the Mexican elites have not taken them up on the offer. There are several reasons for this. The biggest one now is that grabing the Southwestern US gets all those folks they worked so hard to chase OUT of Mexico back IN.

I'll be brave and dare to disagree with you. In the case of the "Zimmermann telegram" during WW I, if you'll recall, Mexico was in the throes of a protracted "revolution," which is simply a euphemism for anarchy, and the Germans were foolish to think that the Mexicans could offer them any substantive help. Still, have you never read about Pancho Villa's murderous raids north at the same time into American territory, and Pershing's punitive expedition against him? Think that happened just because Villa goofed?

And I don't agree that just because Mexico might be glad right now to get rid of population it can't support and to get their remittances from the US to float its economy, it doesn't have restoration of the American Southwest to its national territory as its long-term goal. Too many prominent Mexicans have posited this as a national goal over the last 150 years, and even more importantly, the average Mexican views the Southwest as legitimately Mexican territory. Postulating that the Mexicans "need" us economically and would thus never do anything to spoil US-Mexican relations takes no account of the broader history of US-Mexican relations or the national feelings of the Mexican people (often considerably stronger than "one-worlder" American elite opinion), and it is self-deluded, short-sighted and dangerous to construct an immigration and national security policy around it.

If there ever is a nuclear strike on the US, Mexico will probably have a really severe problem with illegal immigration from the US.

You think Mexico will have a problem absorbing US territory in the Southwest if we're prostrate from a nuclear attack??? Say good-night.

[Map Kernow]

Back to your leaden style of "humor" again, eh? Yeah well, what else can a guy like you manage? Say hello to los 'manos at Taco Bell for me.

[kinghorse]

Mapster,

If Tony Sanchez wins the Texas Governor's seat I'll be back to eat crow in prodigious quantities. If you doesn't, I'll yawn, turn up the bug zapper and roll over in my hammock.

[Poohbah]

You think Mexico will have a problem absorbing US territory in the Southwest if we're prostrate from a nuclear attack???

Yes, precisely BECAUSE we would be prostrate from a nuclear attack. Critical infrastructure in the region would be destroyed, as would the means of repairing same; the survivors would head for any place better than where they were.

As bad as Mexico is, it would be better than a Southwest where major urban areas and the transportation, electrical, and water networks had been destroyed by a large-scale nuclear strike. Many survivors would thus head south (and many of these survivors would actually be illegal immigrants coming back home).

In turn, Mexico would be forced to try and stem this flow, because that many people coming south all at once would overload THEIR infrastructure.

[Map Kernow]

In turn, Mexico would be forced to try and stem this flow, because that many people coming south all at once would overload THEIR infrastructure.

I'll be game and concede your point is plausible. However, it still doesn't mean Mexico would not absorb the US territory it lost 150 years ago---it just means it might restrict migration from its "restored" territories, by means of "internal passports," like in the Soviet Union and Communist China.

[Poohbah]

The question is whether a poor (and, without significant trade with the US, getting a LOT poorer by the minute) Mexico would be able to simultaneously do two tasks: PHYSICALLY assert its sovereignty over the Southwest (i.e., have boots on the ground occupying it) and maintain control of the old border region to keep the riff-raff out of Mexico proper.

The short answer is "no."

Every enemy of the US tries to court Mexico. They are unsuccessful Mexico understands the strategic realities far better than our enemies do. Our enemies merely wish for the US to leave what they perceive to be their sphere of influence (be it Europe, Southwest Asia, or wherever). At that, they will be very happy. They will also lack the ability to significantly project their power BEYOND their immediate region, even if they win.

In short, if Mexico joins in with an overseas foe to help accomplish the foe's strategic goals, and the foe is successful, the results of said endeavour will be as follows:

• The United States that has been ejected from an overseas region; while the deployed forces have been reduced in strength, it is unlikely that they have been destroyed in total.
• The United States, as a nation, is extremely angry.
• Mexico has, in collusion with the enemies of America, attempted to grab the Southwestern United States, in violation of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo and the Gadsden Purchase. They may have been successful in grabbing some territory.
• The United States is extremely PO'd at Mexico, and is right next door to Mexico.
• The United States, as a nation, is extremely angry.
• Mexico's overseas ally is, well, overseas. They are not going to be any help.
• Mexico is going to get stomped flatter than a beercan run over by a tank.

Mexico was wooed by the USSR throughout the Cold War. The Mexican government's reaction each time was, "Yo, Ivan, it's not that we overmuch LIKE the United States, it's that we have to live right next door to them, and would still have to do so even if you won."

[Map Kernow]

I don't wish Sanchez on you. And if you're going to close your eyes and go to sleep in your hammock, have your shotgun loaded and within reach at least.

[Map Kernow]

I'll be game once more and concede that you've made valid points. However, we're talking about a long-term strategy here, one that is brought closer to reality day by day by uncontrolled illegal immigration from Mexico into the US. That's what makes our current and developing situation with Mexico different from the past: an American Southwest with a substantial, plurality, or in some regions of the Southwest, majority Mexican population (with Mexican citizenship or dual Mexican-US citizenship) will be very hard to retain as part of the US, even under international law, no matter how powerful the US stays, or how angry the American people get. You can't assume that Mexicans in the Southwest who quietly and meekly go about their work right now will not lift a finger against US interests if they conflict with Mexico's, and believe me, our interests have already come into conflict with Mexico's on the issue of immigration over the last two decades, and it seems to me that it's always Mexico that has had its interests accommodated rather than us. For goodness sakes, haven't you heard about the Mexican Army incursions the past few years over the border?? What's been done about that except to hush it up on our side???

I believe the time may eventually be right, and sooner than we think, for Mexico to cast in its lot with an enemy of ours like the Chinese, but I'm going to knock you over, Poohbah, and say that I hope that you're right this time. I'm just not willing to bet money on it, that's all.

[avenir]

"It's probably too late. We can't fight a sustained war because alot of our weaponry parts are made overseas. Greed has done us in."

And China's godless communism has exalted them? Please, none of that false "American" guilt. We have a better way here IN SPITE OF our various faults.

[chilepepper]

My gut feel is that "assassin's mace" is some weapon for taking out our carriers, probably by firing a ballistic missiles at them, or perhaps some strategy of sending a swarm of KH-31's or "sunburn" type supersonic cruise missiles at them...

a good test of ABM technology of all types. too bad for China we have ballistic missiles too, so they'll get to try out their ABM technology ;)

[DoctorMichael]

Screw the Fascist Chinese Hegemonists.

[RinaseaofDs]

Either the Kaiser or Hitler tried it. Wasn't it called the Zimmerman Communique, and was intercepted before it got to Mexico?

Not sure on this.

[Rebelbase]

"Luckily most Chinese pilots do not seem to be very good pilots and thus have been crashing this very capable jet quite often (LOL) but should they learn how to use it as the Russians do"

I bet there are a lot of qualified Ex Soviet/Russian fighter pilots who are already mercenaries for the Chicoms.

[RightWhale]

They will lose.

Yes. Unfortunately, destruction will be massive everywhere.

[Tench_Coxe]

"If lower prices were not passed on to US consumers, Wal-Mart would never have become so popular."

Strawman. I know first hand that margins are increased on the products, and the savings are not passed on to the consumer.
I won't get into details, but if you are a stockholder in a consumer oriented industry, start digging into how goods are priced and where the company is having them manufactured ( and don't stop at a distribution point in the US that is termed 'a manufacturing center', but dig to find out where the actual product is being built. ). I think you'll be surprised.
That's all I'll say.

[Hollywoodghost]

You are wrong! We are not the same Americans as the ones in 1941. If Pearl Harbor comes today it will be in a different form. Like 9-11, it will come without a national flag to target. I don't think Americans will fight with the same feavor we had before--we can't. The Chinese make all of our stuff--I believe even the uniforms our troops wear are Chinese made. If they time it just right, while we are distracted by some internal problem they just might do it--seize all of Asia, from Japan to Viet Nam into a new Han Empire. And all we will do is run to the UN and apply meaningless sanctions. I could see a president Kerry doing this, can't you? Why risk losing American cities to Chinese ICBMs for some people in Asia? No, we have lost the will to fight a real war--all we can do is pick on 3rd world nations who lack Atomic weapons.

[SauronOfMordor]

I like the summary. I am afraid that all of the FedGov's eyes are on the Muslims, and the China represents a greater medium-term threat. And may be allied with some of our enemies in the Muslim world, on the sly (Iraqi weapons transfers, etc.)

I would not be surprised to learn that al Queda has been getting financial and logistical support from the Chinese, in order to provide the Chinese with a plausibly-deniable way to strike at the US

[SauronOfMordor]

Mexico was wooed by the USSR throughout the Cold War. The Mexican government's reaction each time was, "Yo, Ivan, it's not that we overmuch LIKE the United States, it's that we have to live right next door to them, and would still have to do so even if you won."

The private gun owners of the American Southwest could probably conquer Mexico without help from the US army. And Mexico knows it.