Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping - Daily News & Case Discussion Thread - Day 40

07/14/02 - Sunday - Day 40 | Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping - Daily News & Case Discussion Thread - Day 40

[stlnative]

Please keep adding Elizabeth Smart updates to this thread...
Remember to keep checking back to this thread today for today's
developing news on the Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping.

Elizabeth was taken from her home at about 1:30am on the morning of June 5th, 2002.

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Salt Lake City Police Department Website
FBI Kidnappings/Critical Missing Persons - Elizabeth Smart
FBI - Salt Lake City Branch
Elizabeth Smart Website
Smart Residence Real Estate Listing
Brigette's Scanned Copy of House Layout from Newsweek Magazine
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[crystalk]

For us, it would always be a heavy, barrel chested German Shepherd, in black and tan, no grey and not hardly any white. What a wonderful dog.

[stlnative]

According to what Mary Katherine told police, the kidnapper took Elizabeth to the bathroom located in the hallway, where he shut the door and turned on the light. Mary Katherine, who had followed them, was able to see a glimmer of light from under the closed door.

The kidnapper and Elizabeth stayed in the bathroom a few minutes and talked, but Mary Katherine couldn't hear what was said. Then, they came back to the bedroom and the man told Elizabeth to put on a pair of shoes and ordered her not to make any noise...

If there is any truth to this report by the Globe...

Why did he take her into the bathroom and what did he say to her?
Did he take her in there because he wanted to make sure that he had the correct child to kidnap? It was dark in the bedroom, maybe he did not know for sure that he had the right child or the one he was sent in for. Did he take her in there so that he could speak to her without waking up Mary K (even though she woke up anyway).

In my opinion the person who took her was very bold and has probably done something like this before. He is highly intelligent and "is not" someone that would stand out to police (like Ricci does). Did he want her to see his face before he took her out of the home, because he is someone that she knew of and this would help keep her calm and under control? Does anyone know of any other cases where a child was taken from their Utah home by a non-family member? If this was a random kidnapping, did the kidnapper just get "lucky" and pick the right bedroom, did he enter other bedrooms without being detected? Did he take her in the bathroom to get a good look at her, to make sure she was what he wanted? (remember Polly Klaas kidnapping was random and he picked Polly over the other girls... I know he asked who lived there, but why take the one who lived there and not one that didn't?)

[crystalk]

Maybe they are just running down I-80 from west to east, after going nearly 900 miles from Salt Lake to Lincoln, Neb., if they continued on I-80 they would go by Indianapolis and Columbus and then across all of Pennsylvania before going into NYC area...?

[Bella]

It leads me to believe that both girls knew the intruder.

Agree..

[Bella]

the guy in the end got very light treatment by the hands of the Utah legal system

Light treatment?? Might be interesting to find out why..Wonder how the families felt..Does anyone know anything about this??

[Bella]

Editorial Reviews Ingram In October 1985, three pipe bombs shattered the suburban calm of Salt Lake City, Utah. Two people, a young businessman and a grandmother, were killed and one young man wounded. All three were Mormons, and when investigators began sifting through the evidence, an amazing story emerged that shocked the world and shook the foundations of the Mormon Church! A complex tale of God and greed that has been sold to CBS-TV as a four-hour miniseries. (Nonfiction)

Interesting..I'll have to read this book. I haven't seen this program, when was the last time it was on?

[Bella]

For us, it would always be a heavy, barrel chested German Shepherd, in black and tan, no grey and not hardly any white. What a wonderful dog.

We had a German Shepherd when my 4 sons were young named Monty.

[Bella]

Did he want her to see his face before he took her out of the home, because he is someone that she knew of and this would help keep her calm and under control?

Could it be an out-of-town family member or friend of the family who was in town for the funeral of Lois' father? Could they have spoken at the funeral?? Is this the reason he took her into the bathroom to talk w/ her so she wouldn't be frightened? Apparently he cared enough for her to wear shoes.

[varina davis]

Why did he take her into the bathroom and what did he say to her?

Brigitte, I truly tried, but I can't, in my wildest imagination, conceive of a bathroom conference in the middle of a kidnapping -- and then return to the scene of the crime (the bedroom) afterward!

[Illbay]

I don't know why people keep harping on the Van Dam case. I think Westerfield's guilty, and I think he's going down for it.

I think the Van Dam's lifestyle definitely contributed to the death of their daughter, but focusing on that instead of the overwhelming evidence against Westerfield is just daft.

[Illbay]

It's about Mark Hoffmann, the document forger and murderer. "Mormon Murders" is a very inaccurate title. Hoffmann actually PREYED on Mormons in his historical document forging scams.

The Tanners were some of his eager customers, because he gave them all sorts of juicy stuff to "prove" that the early history of Mormonism as it is officially recorded is "false." The Tanners spread the stuff far and wide then ended up with egg on their faces when all of it was proven to be fake.

Hoffmann killed two of his accomplices with a car bomb to try to throw off police, this "Mormon Murders."

Recently another document that purported to tie LDS President Brigham Young to the infamous Mountain Meadows massacre also surfaced, the Tanners got excited again, then it was discovered it, too, was a forgery, probably an old one that Hoffmann had left lying around.

Hoffmann is, I believe, serving a life sentence in a Utah penitentiary.

[Illbay]

We don't know that she wasn't. In fact, I suspect that we'd all be stunned at the stuff the cops know that isn't being released to the public.

It will all come out once the case is solved, if it ever is.

[cherry]

why would the Globe article be any more reliable than the NE? or the Star?

jmo...but I do feel that all of these publications have some truth...I don't understand why people would dismiss things totally out of hand immediately, like was done with the NE...

having said that....how would the Globe get this very crucial information...from the cops??? Are these planned leaks or real leaks from LE?

and what if this version is true?...it says to me that indeed the perp sought out Lizzie...woke her up particularly...took her to a dark BR and closed the door and then turned the light on....I think Lizzie would have screamed if she turned and saw a man with a mask on....

so I too, think that she knew who this was....it would be better for her if she did....maybe she is still alive out there....I hope so...

[Illbay]

those articles were snapped up quickly apparently and put away by church officials...

Wrong. The articles' contents were known, because Hoffmann released transcripts of all of them. This actually increased their value, in fact. It was the ORIGINALS that the Church historical office purchased, for historical study. In fact, it was partly the scholarly information gleaned from those studies that helped build the case against Hoffmann.

The most famous of the documents, the so-called "Salamander Letter," has been published in full in several places including the book mentioned.

This notion that they were "purchased to be suppressed" is another lie put out by the Tanners, who were completely fooled by Hoffmann's stuff.

In fact many of the publications of the Tanners' organization STILL contain falsehoods from Hoffmann's forgeries.

[Illbay]

This all happened about twenty years ago.

[cherry]

The Tanners were some of his eager customers, because he gave them all sorts of juicy stuff to "prove" that the early history of Mormonism as it is officially recorded is "false." The Tanners spread the stuff far and wide then ended up with egg on their faces when all of it was proven to be fake.

the point of the book was not centered on the Tanners...I remember clearly that the big uh-oh of the book was how eager the church leaders bought up any document that put a bad face on Mormonism.....

all this only showing that church leaders in any religion can be unscrupulous in their drive to cover up....similar to the Catholic church, to which I am a member

[Bella]

Did anyone hear this on FOX today? I found this on another board w/ plenty of posts of others who also heard this...

Subject: UNMATCHED DNA
Date: 7/14/2002 3:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Chari41
Message-id: <20020714152214.12869.00000485@mb-fx.aol.com>

On Foxnews just now Jeffery Nathan said that in the Smart case there was unmatched DNA, unmatched to Ricci (or any other "known person")...so there is definitely someone else involved other than Ricci...not to say Ricci wasn't involved too. Just caught that on tv...any thoughts anyone?

Subject: Re: UNMATCHED DNA
Date: 7/14/2002 3:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Kathy8791
Message-id: <20020714154431.01910.00000309@mb-mh.aol.com>

I saw this news segment as well. I did not report it because the last time I made a subject about a Fox News report I felt I became a "suspect" (of making something up). Another point about that news segment, which came from Pat Brown, who was also a commentator, was she holds out little hope that Elizabeth is alive and Jeffrey Nathan holds out a glimmer of hope that she is still alive because there has been no demand for ransom.
I believe they both agreed that this was a kidnapping for sexual purposes and no a burglary gone bad.

[cherry]

how do you find all these sites?

[varina davis]

On Foxnews just now Jeffery Nathan said that in the Smart case there was unmatched DNA, unmatched to Ricci (or any other "known person")...so there is definitely someone else involved other than Ricci...not to say Ricci wasn't involved too. Just caught that on tv...any thoughts anyone?

I am not surprised.

[stlnative]

Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping - Daily News & Case Discussion Thread - Day 41