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A Burning Desire, A Critique of the Sierra Club Public Lands Fire Management Policy (1999)
Self | 1999 | Mark Edward Vande Pol

Posted on 07/11/2002 10:13:53 AM PDT by Carry_Okie

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To: Carry_Okie
Your remarks are how all of us who use our God-blessed common sense look at the management of forestry; or close to it. Unfortunely, with the "Green contingency" there is no such concept.

The Greens maybe the cause of "the second revolution" here in America by trying to shove such BS down the throats of those in the know who refuse to swallow. Thank you for trying to spread "common sense" in a country where 25% are idiots trying to spread their propaganda, and the rest are the "silent majority".

21 posted on 07/11/2002 12:13:32 PM PDT by Issaquahking
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To: Issaquahking; Carry_Okie
I agree with you Issaquahking, Carry is using his God Given good common sense, and the Sierra Club and it's like have none! If they did, they don't want to use it! However such a fine critque as this should be sent far and wide, and Carry, I have done my part!
22 posted on 07/11/2002 12:37:18 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: farmfriend; folklore; PARKFAN
bump
23 posted on 07/11/2002 12:39:41 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: lady lawyer
ping, bang and bump! You will love this one! Thanks for the spelling lesson!!!!!!
24 posted on 07/11/2002 12:43:58 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Stand Watch Listen; freefly; expose; Fish out of Water; .30Carbine; ...
Here are two emails I received today.

_____________________________________________


                                                                      

For Immediate Release:                                  Contact: Marnie Funk/Tracey Shifflett
July 10, 2002                                                       202-226-9019

USDA Reports Nearly Half of 2002 Projects to Reduce Wildfire Risks have been Blocked by Appeals - Usually by Environmentalists 

Forest Subcommittee Holds Hearing Tomorrow on New Statistics

Washington, D.C. - The Forest and Forest Health Subcommittee will hold an oversight hearing tomorrow on "Wildfire on the National Forest: An update on the 2002 Wildland Fire Season" at 10 a.m. in 1334 Longworth HOB.

USDA reports that delays caused by the appeals have significantly slowed efforts to pull tinder-dry overgrowth out of federal forests. These delays have contributed to the West's worst fire year on record. To date, with nearly half of the 2002 fire season left, more than 3 million acres have been scorched by wildfire.

The Departments of Interior and Agriculture have spent nearly $400 million on fire suppression - virtually all the funds appropriated for the activity.

A USDA internal report outlining reasons for delays in reducing fire hazards will be discussed at tomorrow's hearing. In Fiscal year 2002, the USDA proposed cutting down excess small trees that could fuel forest fires in 326 instances across the nation. Nearly half - 155 - of those projects have been delayed by administrative appeals. A score of these cases ended up in court.

In Arizona, a state plagued with wildfires, 75 percent of the fuel load reduction plans were appealed. In Montana, another state buffeted this summer by fierce fire, 100 percent of the fuel-reduction plans were appealed.

Chairman Scott McInnis:

"For those who have spent the last several weeks down playing the impact of appeals and litigation on forest management, this report is a bucket of cold water in the face. These numbers are a scathing indictment of the process that governs management of the nation's forests, and a harsh reminder of just how relentlessly ideological some environmental litigants have become.  The American people can expect a decades long cycle of destructive wildfires if this crusade against forest management continues.

"If ever there were a case for reforming the arcane and litigious way in which we manage our forests, this emphatically is it."

Confirmed Witnesses:

PANEL I
Sally Collins
Associate Deputy Chief
National Forest System
U.S. Forest Service
Accompanied by:
Denny Truesdale
Assistant to the National Fire Plan Coordinator
U.S. Forest Service
&
Tim Hartzell
Director
Office of Wildlife Fire Coordination
U.S. Department of the Interior

PANEL II
Jim Hubbard
Colorado State Forest Service
Colorado State University

Thomas Bonnicksen, Ph.D.
Professor, Department of Forest Science
Texas A&M University

Mark Pearson
Executive Director
San Juan Citizens Alliance, Colorado

Penny Morgan
Department of Forestry
University of Idaho

Michael Long
Assistant Director
Florida Division of Forestry _________________________________________________________

For Immediate Release:                                          Contact: Marnie Funk/Tracey Shifflett
July 10, 2002                                                                   202-226-9019

Committee Approves ESA Reforms that Require Federal Agencies to Use Proven Science, Peer Review in Major ESA Decisions

Reforms will better protect species and people who coexist with them

Washington, D.C. - The House Resources Committee today passed H.R. 4840, a bill to reform the Endangered Species Act, by a vote of 22-18. The bill, The Sound Science for the Endangered Species Act Planning Act of 2002, requires the federal government to rely on field-tested and empirical data in making major decisions under the Endangered Species Act, including the listing of species and determinations regarding critical habitat.

Similarly, the bill establishes a higher scientific threshold for petitioners wishing to list a species.  There must be clear and convincing evidence the species is in peril.  The bill requires that science used in major ESA decisions be peer-reviewed by a panel of scientists.  Finally, the bill requires the federal government to take into an account the impact of an ESA mandate on the economy of a region.

Chairman James V. Hansen's Statement:

"This legislation is a first step in fixing the Endangered Species Act, which over the years, has been blatantly abused by federal agencies and environmental groups alike.  This law has impacted millions of people and has caused ruin for thousands more.  One recognizable problem corrected by the bill is the ESA's lack of good science when making decisions that ultimately affect both the species and the people.  This bill ensures the use of sound science through peer review and improves interagency cooperation between the federal agencies and states.  As I have stated before, this will not fix everything that is wrong with the Act, but this is a common sense step in the right direction."

Rep. Richard Pombo's Statement:

"Passage of this bill is an attempt to ensure that the agencies charged with implementing the Endangered Species Act base their decisions on sound, peer-reviewed science. The Act is failing to protect and recover species, and is a major source of conflict with property owners.  We hope this bill begins the process of resolving the shortcomings of the current law."

Rep. Greg Walden's Statement:

"The crisis forced on the farmers and ranchers of the Klamath Basin is a tragic example of why the peer review of Endangered Species Act science is absolutely essential.  The devastation that resulted in that

community from the unjustified shut-off of irrigation water might well have been avoided if this bill had been public law two years ago.  Peer review of data is a concept that is widely recognized within the medical and scientific communities, and it's time it is incorporated into the Endangered Species Act.  Any time the federal government may undertake an effort that can have profound effects on people and communities; it should strive to make sure the data it uses is as close to definitive as possible.  One of the most effective ways of doing that is to allow independent, unbiased scientists to review the work of government biologists and evaluate whether their data supports the actions they're recommending."




The bill's specifics include:

###

25 posted on 07/11/2002 1:08:41 PM PDT by madfly
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To: sauropod
155 mm

105, 155, 12 inch.
I'll see those; make it 16 inch...
26 posted on 07/11/2002 1:16:42 PM PDT by sasquatch
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To: Grampa Dave
Also, don't you have some data on their weed agendas?

Nearly all county property in Santa Cruz is weed infested. They won't spray but prefer to spread seed using brush hogs. The current high density weed is hemlock. (can't spray it; it wouldn't be safe, for the children that is)
27 posted on 07/11/2002 1:21:00 PM PDT by sasquatch
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To: madfly
WOW. This nails it. email that to O'Reilly, I think he had one of those idiots on the other night, you know, with the gentle voice, saying "No, GAO statistics show its is only 1 or 2%".
28 posted on 07/11/2002 1:31:42 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: Carry_Okie; Issaquahking
Heres another email on Fisheries: _______________________________________________________

For Immediate Release:                                          Contact: Marnie Funk/Tracey Shifflett

        July 10, 2002                                                                           202-226-9019

After 7 Hearings, House Resources Committee Reauthorizes Comprehensive Fisheries Act, 23-17

Magnuson-Stevens-not reauthorized since 1996-strengthens fisheries conservation

Washington, D.C. - The House Resources Committee today reauthorized a newly-strengthened Magnuson-Stevens Act that will take strong steps to conserve ocean wildlife, particularly declining species. The committee passed the bill 23-17, taking the first step toward reauthorizing the act for the first time since 1996.

Today's vote comes on the heels of seven hearings held by the Subcommittee on Fisheries, Conservation, Wildlife and Oceans to review proposed changes to an act that is the primary law for fishery resources and fishing activities in federal waters.

The bill steps up fisheries conservation efforts while phasing-out foreign fishing activities close to the U.S. coastline. 

FCW&O Chairman Wayne Gilchrest:

 "When I was appointed as the Chairman of the Fisheries Conservation, Wildlife and Oceans Subcommittee, I made a commitment to many of the members of this Committee to keep an open mind on fisheries issues to work to reach common ground on these important issues without compromising conservation of the nation's natural resources. The Magnuson-Stevens Act is a balancing act between the interests of the fishing community to make a reasonable living and the need to maintain a healthy and diverse environment and this balance is important here in the Committee as well.

"The major themes of the Magnuson-Stevens Act are identifying and prioritizing the fisheries facing overcapacity problems, gathering better data, supporting research and cooperative research initiatives, authorizing Individual Fishing Quotas (IFQ's), moving us toward ecosystem-based fisheries management, ensuring that buyouts do not contribute to overcapacity problems in other fisheries, conserving Atlantic white marlin, and other important areas of fisheries management."

Provisions of the Act:

Overcapacity - Requires the Secretary of Commerce to report to Congress identifying and describing the 20 U.S. fisheries which face the worst problem with excess harvesting capacity.  Overcapacity has been identified as the major problem facing sustainable fisheries by more witnesses than any other at the Subcommittee hearings.

Buyout Programs - Changes the existing statutory requirements for any buyout to require any program to purchase vessels and all existing permits.  Vessels would have to be scrapped or must be required to ensure that the vessel could not fish in U.S. waters.  In addition, this section would require the Secretary to ensure that any vessels purchased under this section could not move to any other fishery on the high seas or in foreign waters and contribute to overcapacity problems in other parts of the world.  This would ensure that buyout programs would not contribute to overcapacity in other fisheries.

Data Collection - Provides authorization for improved data collection,  including using cooperative research practices and coordinating with state fishery management agencies to gather more accurate data.   Also includes a provision to report to Congress on how confidential and proprietary processor data should be used.

Ecosystem-Based Fisheries Management - Requires the Secretary, in conjunction with the Councils, to create a definition for "ecosystem" and "marine ecosystem", and establish criteria for the development of ecosystem-based management plans by each regional fishery management council based on the recommendations of the Ecosystems Principles Advisory Panel. 

Requires the Secretary to report to Congress, within 2 years, on the criteria and include an identification and description of those areas of scientific understanding for which sufficient data are not available.  The Secretary would then be required to develop and begin to implement regional research plans to meet the information deficit identified in the report.

Also requires the Secretary to identify two fisheries - one from the East coast and one from the West coast - and then develop and implement, in consultation with the appropriate Councils, an ecosystem-based fishery management plan for those two fisheries.

Observer Coverage - Requires the Secretary to report to Congress within one year on the needs for a national observer program including options for funding.

Bycatch Reporting Methodologies - Moves the existing statutory provision that requires Councils to establish a standardized reporting methodology for bycatch for each fishery management plan to section of the Act that includes requirements for the Secretary.   Since the Councils have been unable to meet this requirement, the Amendment moves this requirement to the Secretary.

Bycatch Reduction/Clean Gear Research - Requires the Secretary to identify the fisheries with significant bycatch problems or problems with seabird interactions.   Requires a new research grant program to fund research into gear technology that minimizes bycatch, minimizes seabird interactions, and minimizes adverse fishing gear impacts on habitat areas of particular concern, and authorizes $10 million in each of five years.

Seabird Bycatch - Requires the Secretary to report within one year of the date of enactment on the extent of the seabird interaction problem in U.S. fisheries, what efforts have been undertaken by the U.S. fishing industry and the Councils to address the problem, and the extent of the seabird interaction problem in other fisheries outside the U.S.The Secretary would also be required to take action at the appropriate international fisheries management bodies to reduce seabird interactions in those fisheries outside the United States.

Essential Fish Habitat  - The provisions in the bill will focus the efforts on minimizing gear impacts where they are truly important - the habitats that are most productive, the habitats for fisheries that are overfished, and HAPCs

Demonstration Program for Oyster Sanctuaries and Reserves  - This section would require the Secretary to develop a program for the design, construction and placement of oyster sanctuaries or reserves in the Chesapeake Bay consistent with the Chesapeake 2000 Agreement.  Authorizes $5 million for each of five fiscal years is provided.

Individual Quota Limited Access Programs - In the authorization for IFQ programs, the bill requires the Councils and the Secretary to take into account the need to promote conservation.  In addition, not later than 5 years after the date of the establishment of an individual quota system for a fishery under this section by a Council or the Secretary, and every 5 years thereafter, the Council or Secretary would be required to review the effectiveness of the system in achieving the conservation goals required under this paragraph.

White Marlin Conservation - The Secretary would be required, within one year, to report to Congress on any nation that is fishing for Atlantic HMS and is not in compliance with the conservation and management provisions or any rebuilding recommendations enacted by the international management body.  The report shall also include recommendations for actions the U.S. to could take to ensure such compliance.

Also requires that the Secretary contract with the National Academy of Sciences to review the adequacy of the existing measures to protect Atlantic white marlin, and in particular, to examine the effects of fishing in the Mid-Atlantic Bight.  The Academy would then report back to Congress within two years of the date of enactment with the review and making recommendations for any future conservation measures that might be warranted.   

In addition, the bill establishes a pelagic longline highly migratory species bycatch and mortality reduction research program.The program shall identify and test a variety of pelagic longline fishing gear configurations and place an emphasis on determining which configurations are the most effective in reducing blue and white marlin mortality in the U.S. EEZ.

This section also requires the research program to determine the impact of existing time and area closures and focus on whether the existing closures should be modified to reduce bycatch by longline vessels.

Prohibited Act - This provision would make it a violation of the Magnuson-Stevens Act to sell or buy recreationally caught fish.

Membership of Fishery Management Councils - Adds one new voting seat to each Council (except the North Pacific), to be appointed by the Secretary and based on the existing statutory qualifications, and who is not directly employed or receive a majority of their livelihood from the commercial, charter, or recreational fishing industry.

Marine Protected Areas Authority - Clarifies that the Councils have the authority to designate closed areas, seasonal closures, time/area closures, gear restrictions, or other methods for limiting impacts on habitat, limiting bycatch impacts of gear, or limiting fishing impact on spawning congregations in specific geographic areas.


29 posted on 07/11/2002 1:36:02 PM PDT by madfly
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To: BOBTHENAILER
I will send it off now!
30 posted on 07/11/2002 1:37:31 PM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
BTTT!!!!!!
31 posted on 07/11/2002 2:03:20 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: E.G.C.
bttt
32 posted on 07/11/2002 2:05:54 PM PDT by madfly
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To: Carry_Okie
STOP RURAL CLEANSING!!

Clean out D.C. instead. Maybe fire will be necessary. ;^)

33 posted on 07/11/2002 2:28:34 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: headsonpikes
I'm afraid that we will have to take our pitch forks and flame throwers to DC and every federal agency that is staffed with life time Card Carrying Enviral Rats to get rid of this situation.

We have at least two decades since the days of Carter of card carrying rats pushing their agendas is DC and the 50 states. Massive erradication of these evil weeks may be the only answer.
34 posted on 07/11/2002 2:54:55 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
I think shining a light on them will work pretty well. ;^)

But 'firing' them still has a certain appeal.

Of course, so does taking a 'weed-whacker' to their hinder parts. It's darned hard to find servicable horse-whips these days!
35 posted on 07/11/2002 3:09:50 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: headsonpikes; JohnHuang2; BOBTHENAILER; madfly; farmfriend; AuntB; Jeff Head; Carry_Okie; ...
Use what ever to get rid of these Enviral Nazis.

Just get these vile Enviralist Nazis away from the rest of us without any power to hurt anyone again.

I just want them removed from the power they have been illegally granted since the days of Jimmy Carter. They were never elected to hold the powers that they had held for the past 2 decades.

They can do more damage each day to our country than the al Qaeda terrorists can over a long period of time.

I'm tired of listening to them lie and push their agendas. They are in that same group of hate America that started in the 1960's and the 1970's. It is time for these over aged hippies and their acid head spawn to just go away and leave us alone.

They are insane and dangerous and should not have any power over any American, any company or our country.

They and their best friends the ACLU lawyers from liberal hell have worn out their welcome. We can't allow them the freedom to work 24/7 to destroy America for their agendas.
36 posted on 07/11/2002 3:23:07 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
We fired UP! Ain'ta gonna take it NO MO!!!
37 posted on 07/11/2002 5:17:57 PM PDT by SierraWasp
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
"You'd be hard pressed to find a sierra Club member who is not a statist, collectivist or Naderite."

As well as a Ted Kazynski Luddite!!!

38 posted on 07/11/2002 5:20:14 PM PDT by SierraWasp
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To: SierraWasp
Be careful where you live, work and travel with this warning. Please send this to other Northern Kalis Freepers that you know and maybe your email list.

Folks we are under a new Red Flag Weather Advisory Warning.

Here is the copy of my flash email I just got:

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SACRAMENTO CA
330 PM PST THU JUL 11 2002

...A RED FLAG WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR TONIGHT INTO EARLY FRIDAY
FOR THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE SACRAMENTO VALLEY AND DELTA REGION AS
WELL AS FOR THE SAN MATEO-SANTA CRUZ...SANTA CLARA UNITS...THE EAST
BAY HILLS AND THE SONOMA-LAKE NAPA UNITS...

...A RED FLAG WARNING IS EXTENDED FOR TONIGHT INTO EARLY FRIDAY
MORNING FOR THE WEST SLOPES OF THE NORTHERN SIERRA NEVADA AND
ADJACENT FOOTHILLS. THIS INCLUDES THE TAHOE AND ELDORADO NATIONAL
FORESTS AND THE NEVADA-YUBA-PLACER AND AMADOR-ELDORADO CDF RANGER
UNITS...

THIS INCLUDES FIRE WEATHER ZONES 535...536...538...541...546 THRU
550...552 THRU 554...558..559..561...562 THRU 564 AND 566.

STRONG HIGH PRESSURE ACROSS NEVADA WILL PRODUCE A SOUTHEASTERLY FLOW
OF UNSTABLE AIR. THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN A FEW DRY LIGHTNING STRIKES
ACROSS THE SIERRA. IN ADDITION...A STRONG UPPER LEVEL DISTURBANCE
WILL DRIFT UP FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA OVERNIGHT. THESE FEATURES
WILL ALL COMBINE TO PRODUCE SCATTERED DRY THUNDERSTORMS OVER THE
SIERRA MOUNTAINS AND FOOTHILLS...THE SOUTHERN SACRAMENTO VALLEY AND
DELTA REGION...AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE BAY AREA.

BY FRIDAY AFTERNOON MOST OF THIS MOISTURE SHOULD MOVE NORTH OF THE
AREA...WITH ONLY A FEW LINGERING STORMS ACROSS THE HIGH SIERRA BY
FRIDAY AFTERNOON. THESE STORMS SHOULD BE ACCOMPANIED BY SOME
PRECIPITATION BY THEN.

PLEASE ADVISE THE APPROPRIATE OFFICIALS AND FIRE CREWS IN THE FIELD
OF THIS RED FLAG WARNING.

BASIL
39 posted on 07/11/2002 5:23:52 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Carry_Okie
Thanks, they never stop trying to run/ruin our lives!
40 posted on 07/11/2002 5:25:09 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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