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To: EBUCK
Not sure if you're addressing micro or macroevolution, but vestige genes still don't add up to additional chromosomes. In fact, the loss of function is the usual and expected result of mutation. I would look at the same evidence you have just presented and say it is proof that evolution is usually in a negative direction. Therefore, using this example, macroevolution to a more complex state is counterintuitive.
171 posted on 07/11/2002 1:23:35 PM PDT by foolish-one
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To: foolish-one
9. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa.
This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law.

It would be most surprising, in our experience, if an anti-creationist lacking training in physics or chemistry understood the Second Law himself. As will be shown, biologist Rennie is no exception. I should say that Rennie’s formulation of the creationist argument is not how informed creationists would argue—see Q&A: Thermodynamics.

If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.

No, as usual, this anti-creationist confuses order (repetitive, low information) with complexity (non-repetitive, high information). See this answer to another anti-creationist science writer who made the same mistake.

The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) …

It’s more usual for those qualified in physical chemistry to refer to this as an isolated system, and use the term closed system for one where energy but not matter can be exchanged with its surroundings.

… cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.

We totally agree, and point this out often.

More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun’s nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.

This energy input is necessary but not sufficient. The proverbial bull in a china shop produces disorder, but if the same bull was harnessed to a generator, this energy could be directed into useful work. Similarly, living organisms have machinery to direct the energy from sunlight or food, including the ATP synthase motor. But machinery presupposes teleology (purpose), which means that the machinery must have had an intelligent source.

172 posted on 07/11/2002 1:24:27 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: foolish-one
I would look at the same evidence you have just presented and say it is proof that evolution is usually in a negative direction. Therefore, using this example, macroevolution to a more complex state is counterintuitive.

So, using your "logic", worms are more evolved than we are? Amoebae are more evolved yet? Then virii? Then dirt, perhaps?

178 posted on 07/11/2002 1:33:06 PM PDT by balrog666
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To: foolish-one
Could the combination of male and female genes (result of mating) be sometimes incomplete? Would that leave an option, not for the creation of, but for the aquisition of new genes as well as chromosomes in an offspring?

EBUCK

182 posted on 07/11/2002 1:35:27 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: foolish-one
Here is evidence of exactly what I put forth....

An egg did not correctly divide and retained the full diploid value of 28(2n) chromosones. The egg then united with a normal sperm (14(1n) chromosones) from the opposite species.The combination was accepted and a new zygote formed containing all 3 sets of chromosones for a full triploid value of 42(3n). The resultant animal survived and prospered and gave rise to a whole new species of all female salamanders. The Tremblay salamander (Ambystoma.tremblayi) is a result of 28 chromosones from the Blue-spotted salamander and 14 chromosones from the Jefferson Salamander. And the Silvery salamander (Ambystoma.platinium) is a result of 28 chromosones from the Jefferson salamander and 14 chromosones from the Blue-spotted salamander.

Here is the link....here

EBUCK

187 posted on 07/11/2002 1:41:54 PM PDT by EBUCK
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