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To: Asmodeus
William A. Tobin, the FBI's former chief metallurgist, said that by September 1996, about six weeks after the crash, he and other scientists working on the case unanimously agreed that there was no evidence that the crash was caused by a bomb or missile.

jf. response:......I know that is what Tobin testified Mr. Barr, we agree on that. In SEPTEMBER he had indeed, according to his sworn testimony arrived at his "conclusion." Unfortunately, the once secret FBI document re: the BNLabs report paints a very different picture. There is NO MENTION of a "conclusion" in SEPTEMBER. While Tobin may have arrived at his, it appears he didn't have anything approaching a "unanimous" agreement.

While he MAY have ended up wearing "particles of his saliva" (Kallstrom's)....he also got canned from the investigation, as he rightly should have been. Kallstrom thought his conclusions were premature, being as approx. 1/2 of the wreckage was still at the bottom of the Atlantic! I concur with that conclusion.

The OIG also stated that Tobin had exercised "poor judgment" in the LaFamilia case, (as just one example)...did they not?

As usual Barr, you FAIL to address the posting. You merely cut and paste Tobin's testimony (which by now, I believe I have memorized) ad nauseam. His testimony IS the point!

You answer no questions yourself, and yet you seem to be full of them. The only thing to be gleaned from your posts is that all who disagree with you are idiots! That my dear man is the sum and substance of your (dubious at best) contribution to the Fl800 investigation.
27 posted on 07/11/2002 10:41:17 AM PDT by JohnFiorentino
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To: JohnFiorentino; Tymesup; Swordmaker; acehai; All
The readers will note that your rant did not include your answers to the 3 simple questions you were asked.

1. In view of the fact that the FBI leadership DID belatedly agree with Tobin that there was NO physical evidence that Flight 800 was the victim of a missile or bomb, why do you state in your title that it is an "ongoing dissent"?

But then you knew it is NOT and "ongoing dissent", didn't you, and that your real objective was to make another of your sleazy attacks on FBI whistleblower Tobin.

2. Isn't it a fact that you do NOT support the "missile shootdown" notion?

Here's just one example of what your paper trail discloses.

Yahoo TWA800 forum - April 12, 2002
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: Re: [twa800] Kabofovic revisited
[excerpt][quote][emphasis added]
Most here are convinced a "missile" did the dirty deed. I'm not, not yet at least. The initial assessment was "bomb". I thought so to. I still do. [end quote]

Which, of course, also pertains to the 3rd question you dodged.

3. Do you suspect that TWA Flight 800 may have been the victim of a suitcase bomb?

Here's another tidbit from your paper trail on that subject.

Yahoo TWA800 forum
From: John Fiorentino - 28 May 2001
Subject: Seeking comments on this story
FBI questions crash victims' families about mysterious luggage tag
October 27, 1996 NEW YORK (CNN) -- Investigators probing the crash of TWA Flight 800 want to know more about a man named William Kabofovic, whose name was not on the passenger list but did turn up on a piece of luggage in the wreckage.

The FBI has been interviewing family members of the crash victims, asking if they recognize the name.

"I told them I never heard of him," said Richard Penzer, whose sister Judy died in the crash. Questioned by federal agents, Penzer said, "I assumed it had something to do with my sister. They never told me why they were interested in that person."

"They did not infer in any way that this man Kabofovic's bag was the reason the plane blew up. In fact, they suggested it may have been a bag borrowed by one of the TWA passengers," Aurelie Becker told CNN. Becker's daughter, Michelle, died in the crash. Becker said the FBI showed her a photograph of a badly mangled beige canvas bag with a leather shoulder strap and trim and asked whether she recognized it. "They didn't say where the blown up bag was located," said Mrs. Becker. "It was pretty well blown apart, but still recognizable as a bag." According to Mrs. Becker, FBI agents did not suggest that bomb had been in the bag, nor that the bag in the photograph was the one with Mr. Kabofovic's name on it. She said FBI agents asked a series of questions intended to rule out the possibility that a passenger might have been inadvertently part of a plot to destroy the plane. Among these were: did the passenger pack his or her own bags, did they carry a bag on board on behalf of someone else, did someone recently take out a life insurance policy in the name of the passenger, and did he or she have an ex-partner or spouse who would want to do them harm.

The FBI began interviewing family members after sending out a letter from FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom asking for assistance in the investigation.

[JF] Several people on the Flight 800 discussion forum know the background on my interest in this lead. Any comments are appreciated. John Fiorentino

You also conveniently omitted Tobin's testimony on that subject.

[excerpt],quote][emphasis added]TOBIN: I was ordered to, in a rather frenzied manner, to go conduct an exhaustive search in contact with my NTSB liaison, liaison capacity, to find a certain overhead bin that was characterized as in pristine condition.

But it was in a very emotional, very frenzied manner, so I inquired as to why I was looking for this particular pristine overhead bin on the port side of the aircraft, that was from the left-hand side of the aircraft. I was told that that was proof that NTSB was quote "squirreling away evidence" and stashing evidence, which again flies in the face of my interpretation of whose aircraft this was.

But, so I inquired as to why the pristine overhead bin was of such significance. I was told that that was demonstrative proof that they were squirreling away evidence. That the recovery had been captured on a video tape from the USS Grapple or the USS Grasp which-- one of the recovery ships. And on the videotape it showed this overhead bin being raised or set on the deck.

And I said, well I'm still missing some critical information, why is this important, why is this critical? To which I was advised that it had a suitcase, a badly charred and damaged suitcase inside the overhead bin. And my response at that point was, well I'm still missing some critical information. Why are we looking for this quote "pristine overhead bin"? Are you suggesting that there was a bomb in the suitcase that went off? Yes. Well that went off instantaneously brought down the 747 with no reporting on the FDR or CVR, flight data recorder or the cockpit voice recorder, and didn't put a scratch on the overhead bin. And I was told, yes, we want that overhead bin and I was continued -- told to go find that overhead bin. [end quote]

[excerpt][quote][emphasis added]GRASSLEY: This is my last question. Your observations or recommendations you might have of what went wrong with the system with regard to the flow of scientific information?>/font>

TOBIN: A major flaw that I do see in the system is that it's too easily ignored by the strategic decision makers. I think if you look at the Unabomb situation, the Richard Jewell Centennial Park Bombing, the TWA 800, the common thread is that the scientific flow of information is ignored when it doesn't support the prevailing theory.

GRASSLEY: You're a breath of fresh air, Mr. Tobin. You've been very helpful to us for not only appearing today but for our getting the necessary background that needs to be done to make this a valuable contribution to the process of constitutional oversight by the Congress.

I don't know how to thank you other then to say thank you. And obviously you set an example for a person who was trained to seek the truth, to work for an organization that is always supposed to seek the truth and let the truth determine guilt or innocence and I think you have lived up to that very well and in particularly you shine in this black hole of investigation that we had in regard of the TWA case. I thank you very much and I'll dismiss you at this point. [end quote]

Here's part of Tobin's bio.

On June 27, 1971, Mr. William A. Tobin was appointed a Special Agent for the FBI. Before joining the Bureau, Mr. Tobin served three years in the Marine Corps - two in active combat duty in the Republic of South Vietnam. While in the Marines he received the Bronze Star with Combat "V," two crosses of Gallantry and twenty additional military combat decorations. After joining the FBI he worked organized crime and police corruption in Chicago, and general crimes in Detroit. In September, 1974 Mr. Tobin was assigned as a forensic metallurgist in the FBI crime laboratory in Washington, D.C. In 1976 he was promoted to a Supervisory Special Agent and in 1986 became the civilian equivalent of the FBI's Chief Forensic Metallurgist.

In this position, Mr. Tobin was the leading expert, nationwide, in the law enforcement community on forensic metallurgy (i.e. the examination and analysis of material's deformation and damage).

Isn't this yours?

Author--Record Producer--Independent researcher & Paralegal Investigator. Author of forthcoming book on the assassination of President Kennedy.

Does James Kallstrom have ANY forensic metallugy experience?

Do you have ANY forensic metallurgy experience?

Do ANY of your "scientist friends" have ANY forensic metallurgy experience?

Yahoo TWA800 forum - 18 June 2001
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: The most likely scenario so far
From: John Fiorentino - 18 June 2001
Subject: The most likely scenario so far
[excerpt][quote][emphasis added]
Just for s--ts and grins my son and I popped off a road flare and placed it close to the back of a discarded child car seat which had a foam backing to it. Left a reddish brown residue very similar to Sanders' swatch. Remember My scientist friend who thought the chem analysis resembled residue from a "flare?" [end quote]

By the way, doesn't your paper trail include your denial that you have ever reviewed The "Missile Witnesses" Myth in all the years it's been available on the internet? If not, perhaps you'd care to explain to the readers specifically step by step how you independently arrived at the conclusions you included in the following.

Yahoo TWA800 forum - 15 March 2002
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: Re: [twa800] A little sensitive, aren't we?
[excerpt][quote]
However, based on Meyer's statements, I don't believe he witnessed the IE. Fl. 800 didn't explode in a MF at 13000+, the MF was somewhere 7500-8500ft. Look at his timeline, Please explain, HOW he could have witnessed the IE? [end quote]

28 posted on 07/11/2002 5:22:15 PM PDT by Asmodeus
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