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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
You forgot to mention, no culture, either. No Allman Brothers, no Hank Williams... The Allman Brothers and Hank Williams equals culture, huh? How can I live with the shame.

...no Faulkner, no Poe, no Walker Percy..."

I guess I'll just have to be content with northern authors like Herman Melville and Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck. James Fennemore Cooper, Nathaniel Hawthorn, Washington Irving, and Henry David Throreau. Ambrose Bierce and Stephen Crane. Julia Ward Howe, Louisa Mae Alcott, and Laura Ingalls Wilder. Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Sandburg, and Robert Frost. And then there's Horatio Alger, Henry James, L. Frank Baum, Edith Wharton, and Upton Sinclair and don't forget Sinclair Lewis. Jack London and O. Henry. Then there's Eugene O'Neil and Henry Miller and e.e. cummings, and, well you get the idea.

10 posted on 07/02/2002 4:30:18 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
I guess I'll just have to be content with northern authors like Herman Melville and Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck. James Fennemore Cooper, Nathaniel Hawthorn, Washington Irving, and Henry David Throreau. Ambrose Bierce and Stephen Crane. Julia Ward Howe, Louisa Mae Alcott, and Laura Ingalls Wilder. Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Sandburg, and Robert Frost. And then there's Horatio Alger, Henry James, L. Frank Baum, Edith Wharton, and Upton Sinclair and don't forget Sinclair Lewis. Jack London and O. Henry. Then there's Eugene O'Neil and Henry Miller and e.e. cummings

With the exceptions of L. Frank Baum, Laura Ingalls, Edith Wharton and Washington Irving, you can have most of the rest. And if Emily Dickinson wasn't the ultimate rebel against Yankee post-puritan culture, I don't know who was. Sorry if you love the canon, but there is too great a strain of solipsism and self-righteousness in most of the rest of that stuff for me. It's the sort of transcendalism that started in New England, leap-frogged the fly-over states, then landed and took root in present-day California. Probably has something to do with a post-puritan "God is inside me" trend to know what's best for everyone else and all that.

42 posted on 07/02/2002 6:19:18 AM PDT by Puddleglum
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To: Non-Sequitur
I guess I'll just have to be content with northern authors like Herman Melville and Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck. James Fennemore Cooper, Nathaniel Hawthorn, Washington Irving, and Henry David Throreau. Ambrose Bierce and Stephen Crane. Julia Ward Howe, Louisa Mae Alcott, and Laura Ingalls Wilder. Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Sandburg, and Robert Frost. And then there's Horatio Alger, Henry James, L. Frank Baum, Edith Wharton, and Upton Sinclair and don't forget Sinclair Lewis. Jack London and O. Henry. Then there's Eugene O'Neil and Henry Miller and e.e. cummings, and, well you get the idea.

Yeah I get the idea that leftists, feminists, socialists, and statists are something in which you take pride. Especially when Twain and Mencken are omitted.

Explains a lot.

90 posted on 07/02/2002 9:00:04 AM PDT by muleboy
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To: Non-Sequitur
I guess I'll just have to be content with northern authors like Herman Melville

You can have all you want of him, and his boyfriend Hawthorne for that matter.

and Ernest Hemingway

Decent writer, too bad he went nuts and blew his brains out.

and John Steinbeck.

Take him as yours all you want. Steinbeck was an ultra left wing New Deal apologist and propagandist, so I guess he fits in perfectly with yankee culture!

James Fennemore Cooper A decent writer, but himself significantly prewar

Nathaniel Hawthorn

See melville.

Washington Irving

A decent writer with a knack for underhanded mockery of new englanders and other yankees (what do you think Ichabod Crane was?)

and Henry David Throreau.

Unitarian transcendentalist eco-nuts...the perfect embodiment of yankee culture!

Ambrose Bierce

I'll have to admit he is a brilliant writer, but all in all a cynic about everything including his own region of the country just as much as anything else.

Julia Ward Howe

More unitarian transcendentalist kooks...fits in perfect with yankee culture!

Louisa Mae Alcott

Feminist...fits in perfect with yankee culture!

Laura Ingalls Wilder.

Westerner and western writer.

Emily Dickinson

Boring poet who slowly went nuts...perfect for yankeeland.

Walt Whitman

I believe it was Lincoln himself who remarked about him, "at least he looks like a man." Throw him in with the melville-hawthorne category.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Sandburg, and Robert Frost.

Poets and unitarian transcendentalist nuts. The only one I ever had much of a liking for was Frost, but that kinda gets tainted itself when you throw in the kennedy connection.

And then there's Horatio Alger

A reasonably deserving author who has been all but forgotten in history, perhaps because of his "rags to riches" pull yourself up, life with moral virtues messages. You know - the same stuff that is so often at odds with modern culture.

Anyway, I think you get the picture. The greater portion of your list consists of liberal unitarian nutcases, socialist new deal apologists, left wing bohemian freaks, homosexual perverts, and people who went crazy and committed suicide. True, the realm of authors and especially poets tends to attract these kind, but let's just say that yankee culture has more than its fair share of them among is literary leaders. Similarly, among your list those who actually have redeeming characteristics about them are almost always neglected beyond a brief footnote to the likes of leftist wackos like Steinbeck. So if that's the culture you are proud of, by all means you can have it!

155 posted on 07/02/2002 3:31:40 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: Non-Sequitur
I guess I'll just have to be content with northern authors like Herman Melville and Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck.

Excuse me? John Steinbeck is a "northern author"? Since when did they move Salinas California to the Union states?

It's farther south than Lexington Kentucky, son.

Steinbeck spent most of his life in the Monterey/Salinas/Pacific Grove region of California. He placed most of his stories in that area, also (so much so that the area is well-known as "Steinbeck Country"). If you had actually *read* any of his books, you couldn't help but notice that they were deeply rooted in California. How on earth do you figure he's a "northern author"?

He may have lived briefly in his New York residence and died in New York, but he was born and lived as a Californian, and that' where his heart ever was.

Mark Twain lived in New York longer than Steinbeck ever did, and is buried there (died in Connecticutt). Are you going to try to claim him as a "northern author" too?

Hemingway? Here's an actual picture of Ernest Hemingway as a child -- nuff said:

James Fennemore Cooper

Who? Try "Fenimore". You can have him, he was the starry-eyed ivory tower writer who started the whole "noble savage" PC nonsense:

"Few men exhibit greater diversity, or, if we may so express it, greater antithesis of character than the native warrior of North America. In war, he is daring, boastful, cunning, ruthless, self-denying, and self-devoted; in peace, just, generous, hospitable, revengeful, superstitious, modest, and commonly chaste."
(from The Last of the Mohicans)
Puh-leaze... I can't say much for the turgid literary style, either.

Nathaniel Hawthorn

*cough*Hawthorne*cough*. You can keep him, too. The House of the Seven Gables was one of the most waste-of-time books I've ever read. Very overrated.

Henry David Throreau

Drop the extraneous "r" and you'll have it right. Are you sure you're as familiar with these authors as you like to imply?

Louisa Mae Alcott

Sigh. "May".

Julia Ward Howe

Are you sure you want to include such cultural literary icons as the woman whose best remembered work today is the lyrics (but not the music) of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"? She was an admirable reformer, but her lasting value as an author leaves something to be desired.

Walt Whitman

Whitman certainly had a way with the language, but there's no doubt why Clinton gave out copies of "Leaves of Grass" to the objects of his sexual desire:

Through me forbidden voices,
Voices of sexes and lusts, voices veil'd and I remove the veil,
Voices indecent by me clarified and transfigur'd.
Horatio Alger

I wasn't aware that the Unitarian minster wrote anything of note. Perhaps you meant Horatio Alger Jr.

Henry James

Henry James may have been born in New York, but it's a gross oversimplification to try to label him a "northern author". Most of his youthful education was with tutors in Geneva, London, Paris, Bologna and Bonn. He omnivorously read British, French, German, and Russian classics.

He continued to travel in Europe, and from the age of 26 until his death at the age of 72, he lived in Europe. He wrote his first novel while traveling through Venice and Paris.

He lived mostly in Britain, in Rye and London, which he loved so much that he wrote, "It is a real stroke of luck for a particular country that the capital of the human race happens to be British. Surely every other people would have it theirs if they could." He became a naturalized British citizen, and was decorated by King George V with the Order of Merit. When he visited the US in 1905, it was the first time he had been to the US in twenty five years.

It would be arguably more accurate to call Henry James a "European author" than a "northern author".

Edith Wharton

Wharton, too, spend some of her formative years in Europe, visited Europe frequently as a young adult, and adopted France as her home for the last half (and most literarily productive years) of her life. She never visited the US in the last 16 years of her life -- her last visit was only made to return briefly to accept her Pulitzer prize and bring it back home to France.

Upton Sinclair

Keep him. He was a lifelong crusader for Socialism. Even his most famous work, "The Jungle", is as much a screed for socialism as a broadside against the unacceptable practices of the meatpacking industry as it was in 1904. Six publishing houses rejected it, one (Macmillan) with the insightful comment that "One feels that what is at the bottom of his fierceness is not nearly so much desire to help the poor as hatred of the rich."

Jack London

There you go again -- Jack London is another Californian who you are trying to misappropriate as a "northern author". London was born in California, died in California, and lived the majority of his life in California, the exceptions being time in Alaska and a few years living on his boat cruising the Pacific Ocean.

O. Henry

And yet again... O. Henry was born in North Carolina (which was part of the Confederacy, son), and lived there until moving to Texas when he was 20. Only the last ten years of his life were spent in New York. Does this somehow make him a "northern author" in your book?

e.e. cummings

Cummings is yet another US-born author who did most of his writing while in France. I'm not sure he would consider himself a "northern author".

and, well you get the idea

I'm indeed getting an idea, but probably not the one you intended.

272 posted on 07/03/2002 7:20:16 PM PDT by Dan Day
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