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[Bishop] Adamec irked at loose lips in diocese [,planning to punish good straight priest]
THE TRIBUNE-DEMOCRAT ^ | June 30, 2002 | SUSAN EVANS

Posted on 06/30/2002 10:49:00 AM PDT by Polycarp

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To: Siobhan
I will forward this motion at our next meeting of the "Catholic Taliban."
41 posted on 06/30/2002 3:34:44 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: sinkspur
It's going to be really fun watching the American Catholic Church implode.

God knows it's earned it.

L

42 posted on 06/30/2002 4:09:38 PM PDT by Lurker
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To: VOA; maryz; Siobhan; sinkspur; johniegrad; Slyfox; SMEDLEYBUTLER; stands2reason; livius; Romulus; ..
Would somebody on this forum PLEASE specifically point me to the Bible Scriptures (in the usually accepted Bible running from Genesis to Revelation) the scriptures giving specific, positive images of homosexuality?

 

Penn State COLLEGIAN

[Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2000 ]

Religions unify for LGBT service

Campus faiths gathered to support acceptance of diversity in their churches.

 

By Alissa Wisnouse

Collegian Staff Writer

All people are children of God, which includes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, a group of diverse religious leaders said last night in a unified voice.

They came together for a Service of Affirmation of the Human Dignity of LGBT People in Eisenhower Chapel. Local Jewish and Christian organizations sponsored the service to reaffirm a place for LGBT people in those faiths.

An arch of candles, each a different color of the rainbow, twinkled behind the panel and contrasted sharply with the cold, gray sky outside Eisenhower Chapel.

Greg Harbaugh, Lutheran Campus Ministry pastor, related a story about a depressed woman who sought his guidance. In the course of the counseling, the woman came out to him as a lesbian.

"And I was in new territory," Harbaugh said.

He contemplated this woman, he said, and soon realized she, like other gays and lesbians he knew, was a faithful person through whom God has done good work.

"Is there room for people who are gay and lesbian? I think there is," he said. "God is calling the church to open the closet doors, to unbind you and set you free."

Harbaugh discussed a reading from the Bible in which Paul wrote negatively about people who engaged in homosexual intercourse.

"Paul didn’t have an understanding of sexual orientation as we do today," Harbaugh said. "Paul’s words simply don’t ring literally true to me."

Father Joseph Hlubik, Penn State Catholic Community campus minister, said although some Bible passages speak negatively of homosexuality, there are positive images as well.

He discussed a Bible story in which two men share a deep and intimate love.

"This is a story of a covenant, lifelong love between Jonathan and David," Hlubik said. "This is the same David the Jews and Christians view as the greatest king of Israel."

Hlubik encouraged people in the audience to focus on a larger view of faith, not just on intricacies of biblical passages, which can sometimes be taken out of context or used as weapons to condemn people.

"The fundamental command is to love," he said. "Whether we are straight or gay, we all need friendship, we all need love, and we all need intimacy in our relationships."

Hlubik said there has been some progress in embracing LGBT people in Roman Catholicism.

There have also been strides in Judaism, said Elana Rivel, program director of Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life. She said in the three branches of Judaism, two have made progress to be more inclusive of LGBT people.

"The third one is not quite there yet," she said.

However, she said in the majority of the Jewish faith there is starting to be a change, and she is optimistic about the future.

There is even progress toward inclusion in the language of the Bible, said the Reverend Timmy Shanahan, a chaplain with the Episcopal Campus Ministry.

Shanahan said she got tears in her eyes 10 years ago when she first read a translation of the Book of Genesis that said God created humankind, both male and female, in his image.

This differs from another translation that says God created man in his image.

"God created humankind in his image - not mankind, but humankind, male and female," Shanahan reiterated.

"We are each made in God’s image. To me, this is the basis of theology."

The Reverend Carl Synan, campus pastor with the United Campus Ministry, also related his belief that people are all created by God. "No matter what others may say," he said, "what God has created, may no one call profane."

While the majority of the speakers read religious passages, Oscar Fernández (graduate-comparative literature) offered up an a cappella song of praise.

A small, intimate group of about 20 people, many whom were middle-age adults, attended the service, which is an annual event.

Tim Kroh (junior-religious studies) attended the service and felt it was a positive step for Penn State in becoming more accepting of diversity. "I think it’s important to acknowledge that LGBT people are children of God and deserve an equal place in religion and faith," he said.

********************

 

Centre Daily Times Values section, Saturday, October 21, 2000

Community reaction to gays, lesbian may subside due to television portrayal

By Rev. Joseph Hlubik

Last week was Coming Out Week at Penn State. Although the topic is getting old - and for many a non-issue - for lots of folks it is still a moral dilemma and for others, especially those in their teens and twenties, it is an extremely painful process of coming to terms with who they are.

Fortunately, with a few positive thought-provoking images of gays portrayed on television and movies and maybe even encounters with gays in our own lives, it is becoming common enough to be a topic of discussion.

There is great taboo and fear surrounding this issue, which I truly believe is not so much religious as it is anthropological and cultural.

It is as confusing as gender roles in the heterosexual population.

The more we see gay and lesbian friends, neighbors and family members like everyone else, the less discrimination and fear there will be.

The more we see homosexuals as good citizens and good people, the more tolerant our society and, hopefully, our churches become. The more we see sexuality as only one aspect of a total person, the less we are likely to dismiss people because of their orientation.

Although the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual genital sexual activity is immoral, it recognizes the difficulty in maintaining chastity (for all people) and the necessary pastoral care and concern that needs to be given when dealing with this issue.

We all need to encourage and challenge one another in this matter of chastity.

The most fundamental commandment for both Jews and Christians is love, but then there is always an argument as to what genuine love entails.

I know the essentials of respect, honesty, trust and reverence for oneself and others, that you never do things that would harm or bring shame to another. Love builds upon concern for the other and nurtures what is healthy.

I think St. Paul defines it best in his letter to the Corinthians: "Love is always patient and kind; it is never boastful or conceited; it is never rude or selfish; it does not take offense, and is not resentful. Love takes no delight in other people’s sins, but delights in the truth; it is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope and to endure whatever comes ... and now three things remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." Paul tells us that genuine love is even a greater gift than faith; pretty amazing.

Whether we are straight or gay, all of us need friendship and intimacy; we need love. It is the greatest call of the human spirit.

We all need to feel the warmth of hugs and embraces of others. Love needs to be embedded in our relationships and communities.

As the U.S. Bishops have stated in their pastoral letter "Always Our Children," which was approved by the Vatican in 1998, "Our Homosexual sisters and brothers - indeed all people - are summoned into responsible ways of loving. ... We are called to become one body, one spirit in Christ. We need one another if we are to ‘grow in every way into him who is the head,

Christ ... .’ Though at times you feel discouraged, hurt or angry, do not walk away from your families, from the Christian community, from all those who love you. In You God’s love is revealed. You are always our children."

The Rev. Joseph Hlubik is a minister with the Penn State Catholic Community.

 

********************

 

Dear Editor:

 

It is sad that people calling themselves Christians are espousing the most un-Christian like activities. (Religious unity for LGBT service, Oct 18 Collegian), and (Community reaction to gays, lesbians may subside due to television portrayal, Oct 21, CDT Values).

In regard to the Collegian article, to imply that there is some Christian basis (biblical or tradition) for promoting homosexual lifestyles is gross distortion of Christian teaching, which is very clear on the matter. For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church in paragraph 2357 quoting Scripture says, "Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."

The Catechism goes on to say in the next paragraph that the inclinations to homosexual acts are "objectively disordered" because the "inclination is a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil," quoting the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith of the Catholic Church (CDF). The CDF goes on to say, "To chose someone of the same sex for one’s sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator’s sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living."

"Therefore special concern and pastoral attention should be directed toward those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not."

Paul, contrary to the quoted claims of some campus ministers, knew more about "sexual orientation" than a plethora of new biblical theorists who must reinvent Scripture and the tradition of the Church to have God, Who is perfect good, promote vice. Sexual orientation doesn’t exist in the homosexual context of an innate, final condition per much contemporary research, which totally debunks claims otherwise. Even if it did, that would not make homosexuality any more acceptable than alcoholism for those so oriented.

For the record the Catechism is quoted here because of the continuing erroneous public comments of a member of the Penn State Catholic ministry who stated in the Collegian article that, somehow, the relationship between David and Jonathan involved homosexual acts, a pathetic distortion of this beautiful part of the Bible, which is totally unfounded. Nowhere in traditional Scriptural exegesis is there even a hint of such a blasphemy, except by those individuals who must reinvent Scripture to make them comfortable with their vices. For any clerics to say, "There are positive images of homosexuality in the Bible," are the fantasies of misguided individuals who have repeatedly participated as members of the Christian clergy in various activities in this community, which celebrate the promotion of a lifestyle that the Church expressly condemns out of a love for those who need to hear the Perfect Truth that is Christ for the sake of their eternal souls - a love they completely ignore. The only ones taking Scripture out of context are these re-inventers who don’t like what it says. What it says on homosexuality is very clear, in particular, Genesis 19.

It’s one thing to embrace all people; the Church does that as we’re all sinners but there is a very important condition that these clerics continually leave out. The Church can never embrace the sin; it requires an amending of one’s life in contrition as a condition for forgiveness. To imply that "we all (those inclined to homosexual acts included) need intimacy in our relationships" implies an eventual sexual intimacy that is against nature and nature’s God.

I would remind those quoted in the aforementioned Collegian and CDT articles that a requirement for love is being truthful. To give a stone where bread is required is selfish hate, not love. Today, the world doesn’t want to hear about redemptive suffering, or following the example of Christ by carrying crosses from a much maligned Church standing out alone as a last bastion of truth, a message of eternal salvation.

It is wrong to say that the Vatican approves Always Our Children (AOC). If that was the case, then why did Rome encourage Father John Harvey, the founder of COURAGE, a Catholic ministry helping people to leave, not live the homosexual lifestyle, to write a critique of every version of AOC that has been released?

Moreover, it is very clear in the Vatican Document Apostolos Suos, that in no way does the very problematic AOC carry any weight as being a binding document to Catholics on faith and morals as such a declaration requires near unanimous consent of the bishops with the Pope, something that AOC never did, coming only from a small committee of bishops. In fact, many members of the National Council of Catholic Bishops not only publicly voiced their opposition to AOC, but also told the faithful that they, in good faith, were not obliged to abide by it whatsoever.

You would think that Catholic clergy on campus would at least make the effort to get that message out. Sadly, that does not appear to be the case.

Gary L. Morella

Associate, Fellowship of Catholic Scholars

Lemont, PA

 

**********************

Further comments from Gary Morella:

Catholics of the Altoona Johnstown Diocese ran newspaper ads in the State College PA Centre Daily Times and in the Penn State Daily Collegian because of the horrendous catechesis Catholics of this diocese are being exposed to, in particular residents of Centre County in Central PA and the Catholic population at Penn State University, as a result of the heretical example of members of the Penn State Catholic Community including clergy in regard to taking part in public demonstrations celebrating homosexual lifestyles, co-sponsoring Christian affirmation services honoring sexual diversity, making public statements in the local paper saying that "there are healthy expressions of a homosexual orientation", and signing petitions celebrating sexual perversion. This situation has been ongoing since 1996 with many complaints made to the bishop’s office. It has steadily deteriorated to the point of local Catholics now having no problem with publicly admitting that they are freely dissenting from infallible Catholic teaching on faith and morals at a time when people of all faiths are trying to unite to fight the acceptance of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle in our school district.

The Catholic Response Ad in the local papers was THE Catholic Response of the Church to homosexuality as a civil right as presented by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the highest teaching office in the Church apart from the Pope.

Fr. Byrne and the spokesman for the diocese of Altoona-Johnstown, Sr. Mary Parks, told this community that these ads which were published statements on homosexuality from the Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the highest teaching office in the Church apart from the Pope, "did not come from any official Roman Catholic source."

Fr. Byrne and Sr. Parks then proceeded to apologize to State College PA for the official Catholic Teaching on homosexuality by saying "We regret that this ad has created confusion and even pain for some people and we ask that the law of Gods love for all people be held primary. God loves us male and female, straight or gay, every color of the rainbow, every culture on the earth. With Gods love as guide every person must be treated with dignity and respect."

Again, please remember that the "ads" were verbatim statements from the teaching Magisterium of the Church on homosexuality. What is conspicuously missing in Fr. Byrne and Sr. Parks closing statement above is the God loves us but hates the sin which will keep us from spending an eternity with Him in Heaven, the sole reason for our creation.

This, in a community where the moral rot emanating from Penn State University through its blatant promotion of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle calling for domestic partner benefits has filtered down to our public school system which now demands that sexual orientation be recognized as a civil right in an affirmative action sense. So much for the support of the Church for local Catholics concerned about the souls of the faithful, in particular their children being exposed to hedonism with the blessings, it appears, of not only the state but also the diocesan Church.

Sadly what has resulted is more obfuscation of Catholic teaching when our diocese is crying out for a clear, Catholic voice to stand up for Christ and His Church.

Catholics are entitled to authentic catechesis. There are enough lies to go around in the secular world without adding to the problem. And that’s what is happening in State College, PA in the diocese of Altoona-Johnstown, Catholics are adding to the problem instead of witnessing to the Faith.

43 posted on 06/30/2002 4:15:42 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp; All
We included the Archbishop Designate Timmothy Dolan in our prayers at this morning's Mass in the Milwaukee Diocese (in our parish, at least). Dolan is replacing the FORMER, DISGRACED Archbishop Rembert Weakland.

I hope everyone on this board will include him in their daily prayers as well. Dolan is coming to Milwuakee when the whole diocese is in deep despair from Weakland's actions, the revelations that he has coddled and covered for other sexual molesters, and the decline and absence of new vocations. The new Archbishop Dolan needs all the help he can get through everyone's prayers.

44 posted on 06/30/2002 4:28:21 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Polycarp
Unfortunately these are the kinds of answers [IE: Paul is an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about, and David was probably a faggot himself] you get from men who spend all their time sitting around and trying to reason away what's written explicitly in black and white.

It's RIGHT THERE and it's as plain as the nose on anyone?s face, but they would much rather engage in innuendo about Johnathon & David and carp about Paul because that's the only way to twist the scriptures to fit their agenda.

The only people who are fooled by this are those already too biased to care and those too ignorant to know better.

45 posted on 06/30/2002 4:32:22 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: Polycarp
This bishop is consulting with his canon lawyers regarding taking away this faithful priest's faculties.

He should be taking away the privileges of the homesexual priests, not Foster!

Oh, this makes me mad. RANT/

46 posted on 06/30/2002 4:40:32 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Romulus
Thanks, Romulus, for posting the Encyclical quote on this thread. I was going to go back to find it, but could not remember which thread it was on.
47 posted on 06/30/2002 4:47:09 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Siobhan
That was a very tactful letter. I am so mad right now, that I would write a letter to the Pope and ask him to throw Adamec out.
48 posted on 06/30/2002 4:49:41 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Polycarp
Will strange coincidences ever cease here?

There are NO coincidences in life unless you choose to believe in luck. We make our own coincidences by letting opportunity nudge us. For example, talking to someone about coming back to the Catholic Church when the Spirit taps you on the shoulder and the message is "Issue the Invitation."

49 posted on 06/30/2002 4:54:47 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Polycarp
...homosexual genital sexual activity...

The very fact that these words were uttered by a member of the priesthood, or flowed from his pen, leaves me disgusted and speechless.

Morella said it best:

Nowhere in traditional Scriptural exegesis is there even a hint of such a blasphemy, except by those individuals who must reinvent Scripture to make them comfortable with their vices.

50 posted on 06/30/2002 5:00:22 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Salvation; maryz; Siobhan; sinkspur; johniegrad; Slyfox; SMEDLEYBUTLER; stands2reason; livius; ...
One more request:

PLEASE pray specifically for Father Foster. He is a dear friend and a courageous priest.

But this pressure over the last decade has worn him down to the point that he would almost welcome having his faculties removed.

His dad died two years ago.

His pastor made him use up all his sick days and vacation days to be at his side.

The bishop put him in a church almost the farthest away from his home in the diocese.

He requested a closer post to be closer to his dad during his illness.

The bishop has done this for his favored priests.

He refused with Father Jim.

His pastor has persecuted him too relentlessly.

This is Fr Jim's year to be transferred.

Pray for him that he perseveres! Please.

51 posted on 06/30/2002 5:00:24 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
"This is a story of a covenant, lifelong love between Jonathan and David," Hlubik said.
"This is the same David the Jews and Christians view as the greatest king of Israel."


Yep, when looking for justification, pick a king who sent a subordinate to his death
so he could have sex with the subordinate's life.

I'm afraid that if I stumbled into a public meeting of these sort of people
I'd start asking exactly what physical, homosexual acts took place between Johnathan and David.

It's one thing for a man to have true platonic love for another man so that he'd take a bullet
(or an arrow or a spear for him)...
it's another thing to substitute the guy for the place of a female.

Why do I waste my breath...these folks have constructed their warped reality and
stuffed their ears.
52 posted on 06/30/2002 5:04:37 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Lurker
It's going to be really fun watching the American Catholic Church implode.

Why should any Christian delight in someone else's suffering. It seems that you can see we are against the homesuxuality in this issue. I rensent your remark.

But perhaps, you, along with many others have an errant notion about the Catholic Church.

You see, we, the people are the Catholic Church. Those called to a conscecrated life, deacons, priests, bishops, cardinals -- and the hierarchy are co-members with us. They are not over us, but co-members. Check out the Catholic Catechism and get the facts please.

And likewise, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

53 posted on 06/30/2002 5:05:55 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Polycarp
Speaking of St. Paul, does Rev. Joseph Hlubik realize that the Bible is an inspired work? And yes, I am a Catholic.
54 posted on 06/30/2002 5:07:41 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Jhoffa_
Unfortunately these are the kinds of answers [IE: Paul is an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about, and David was probably a faggot himself] you get from men who spend all their time sitting around and trying to reason away what's written explicitly in black and white.

Psalm 35

Sin speaks to the sinner
In the depths of his heart
There is no fear of God
Before his eyes.

He so flatters himself in his mind
That he knows not his guilt.
In his mouth are mischief and deceit.
All wisdom is gone.

He plots the defeat of goodness
As he lies on his bed.
He has set his foot on evil ways,
He clings to what is evil.

You love, Lord, reaches to heaven;
Your truth to the skies.
Your justice is like God’s mountain,
Your judgments like the deep.

To both man and beast you give protection.
O Lord, how precious is your love.
My God, the sons of men
Find refuge in the shelter of your wings.

They feast on the riches of your house;
They drink from the stream of your delight.
In you is the source of life
And in your light we see light.

Keep on loving those who know you,
Doing justice for the upright hearts.
Let the foot of the proud not crush me
Nor the hand of the wicked cat me out.

See how the evil-doers fall!!
Flung down, they shall never arise.

55 posted on 06/30/2002 5:09:46 PM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Salvation
And yes, I am a Catholic.

I've always assumed that...

does Rev. Joseph Hlubik realize that the Bible is an inspired work?

This guy was homosexual before he was ever ordained. Lay people warned Bishop Adamec that Hlubik was an open, active homosexual who should not be admitted to Holy Orders. Adamec ordained him anyhow.

Why do so many folks find it hard to believe that homosexuals and homopederasts, with no calling to the priesthood, have none-the-less, of set purpose, infiltrated the Church and conspired to destroy it fronm within, being promoted even to the offices of Bishops and Cardinals?

The evidence is irrefutable, IMHO.

We all need to read (again?) Martin's "Windswept House."

56 posted on 06/30/2002 5:12:58 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: johniegrad
"cat me out" should be "cast me out"
57 posted on 06/30/2002 5:14:49 PM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Polycarp
Prayers for Priests
58 posted on 06/30/2002 5:21:32 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Lurker
It's going to be really fun watching the American Catholic Church implode.

I don't look for it to implode. The conservatives will become more and more marginalized or segregated into their own parishes. That's what I see.

59 posted on 06/30/2002 5:29:53 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Salvation
You see, we, the people are the Catholic Church. Those called to a conscecrated life, deacons, priests, bishops, cardinals -- and the hierarchy are co-members with us. They are not over us, but co-members. Check out the Catholic Catechism and get the facts please.

Here we go again. Just keep in mind that Jesus established the Church in such a way that He commissioned only the bishops and priests to rule the Church. The obligation to rule comes with consecration into the ministerial priesthood of Jesus.

60 posted on 06/30/2002 5:29:55 PM PDT by Renatus
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