U.S. could face missiles launched from commercial ships

AP ^ | 6/27/02 1:54 PM | MATT KELLEY

[flamefront]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hostile countries or terrorist groups could use commercial ships to launch short-range missiles against the United States, the No. 2 official in the Pentagon told Congress Thursday.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said that threat was one reason lawmakers should approve all of President Bush's requested $7.6 billion for missile defense research next year.

[flamefront]

Wolfowitz seems to recall what people paying attention to Gertz had written in 1997:

Launching missiles from a merchant ship ?

Another prominent US defense publication, Inside the Pentagon, on 5 June 1997 published an article which indicated that China is considering outfitting merchant ships with ballistic and cruise missiles, and use the protection of surrounding merchant vessels in a possible attack against Taiwan ("Busy Sealanes Could Provide Chinese Cover for Missile Attack on Taiwan", Inside the Pentagon, 5 June 1997).

Speaking at a 22 May 1997 symposium on Chinese security issues at Fort Myers, Virginia, one expert postulated that China could use such an approach, and that such an attack "would be using technology that is currently available or speculated to be available to China in the next three years."

The expert said "it's a scenario that does not require China to have a blue water navy, amphibious landing ships, nor to land troops on Taiwanese soil." He said this so-called "defensive containment" strategy would be based on China's calculation that the U.S. government, fearful of military commitments that may result in large numbers of U.S. casualties, might not come to the aid of Taiwan should it fall under threat of Chinese attack.

China's expected acquisition of Sovremenny-class destroyers with SSN-22 "Sunburn" surface-to-surface cruise missiles, as well as its current inventory of C-801, C-201, C-802 missiles, "could give the Chinese the capability to contain surface action in the Taiwan Strait by placing a reasonable doubt of safe passage to ships attempting to enter the area," said the expert.

He estimated that a couple dozen of these cruise missiles, launched five nautical miles from the Chinese mainland, can hit a target 150 nautical miles away in less than two minutes. By shooting from the shallow waters close into the Chinese coastline, from amid the clutter of merchant vessels, China would be placing United States warships in the position of having to launch a counterattack on vessels located within Chinese territorial waters.

In addition, China could deploy hand-held Global Positioning Systems receivers on merchant ships to assist it in targeting Taiwan, and U.S. ships would be at a loss to pinpoint which Chinese ships were supporting the attack in this way. The Chinese battle group would be surrounded by dozens of merchant vessels, some engaged in commercial shipping, others assisting the battle in targeting, he said.

To defend against such a scenario, the article stated that the United States should make clear its commitment to the defense of Taiwan, undertake joint exercises and work out rules of engagement and command and control.

[Mulder]

Check this out....

[Al B.]

You'll love this. You called this scenario in your book.

[First_Salute]

Actually a very old problem.

See War of 1812.

Currently, the threat from merchant ships is but half the trouble; the other being the multitude of river barges plying their way to half the U.S. population.

[RAY]

Merchant ships had better monitor themselves - 'cause the response will be boom!

[Jeff Head]

As has been posted on this thread, future/potential attacks on us from potential commercial "Q" ships are not a new theory. I just applied them in my book as an assymetrical method for the Chinese to get in some initial very tough blows. There's no secret how vulnerable we are at present to this.

The entire reason for the books is to warn us what might be, and give some potential solutions that are "outside the box" for many of our current policy makers ... like quickly putting up a theater missile defense system, TMD ... which by the way this administration appears ready to go for.

Thanks for the ping. On another thread I just responded to they are talking about terrorists using explosives to take down malls full of shoppers! Imagine that!

DRAGON'S FURY - BREATH OF FIRE
The Story of the coming Third World War

[RightWhale]

According to the local paper, the ABM radar at Shemya is cancelled.

[snopercod]

I wonder what target terrorists could pick which would cripple America?

[joanie-f]

Al....So glad to see that you, too, are aware of how prophetic so much of Jeff’s ‘fiction’ is turning out to be. (And thanks for pinging him to this thread. Although I know he is too humble to admit it, so many of the rumblings that are just now occurring all over the globe either (1) would fit very well into the various intertwined plot threads that he has running througout the books, or (2) are already neatly incorporated into the unfolding story.)

That is what is so incredibly intriguing about ‘Dragon’s Fury’ – not only do the books read as suspensefully as a Clancy novel, but the catastrophic (and yet never leaving the reader feeling that the future of the free world is hopeless) events that occur within the pages are equally (if not moreso) fact-based, and far more prophetic.

[First_Salute]

Written hastily, as usual...

There are maps of mostly the power lines; and maps of the oil and gas transmission lines; and maps of the navigable waterways; and maps, incredibly, of the storm drainage systems.

Nationwide maps.

The university libraries have prevailing winds charts; but then again, all you have to do is look at the directions of the major airport runways (not to mention that the secondary fields are even better indications).

Every public school is on the map.

The fuel tank farms have no security detachments. There is NOBODY following the tanker trucks. There are not retirees with cell-phones doing this, or being asked to watch over things; arranged in shifts throughout the day. (See schools, following.)

The airports have no perimeter watch towers and patrols. (Our experts and Bush-bots cannot imagine the taking of a plane WITHOUT passengers; in addition to the matter of our aircrews needing weapons in case hijackings takes place by teams assaulting from the airport periphery. Then, who needs passengers, when 8 teams of 8 men can easily fly away with, after a gun battle --- raking the fuselages of the 3 first planes in the takeoff lineup --- the remaining 5 Boeing 757's at St. Louis or Pittsburgh or other towns on the navigable waterways?)

The airports do not permit "civilian" parking within 300 feet of the terminal, yet mid-East and African (some legal and some illegal) aliens (some of whom may be applying for citizenship, but who knows?) ... continue to drive their numerous (by the dozens of) cabs right on up the very doors of the airport proper. There is no inspection of these cabs. There is no establishment of concrete barriers to alter the angles of transport attack at, and then into, these buildings. (See schools, following.)

Our governments are so incredibly narcissistic and self-centered and trying to prove themselves in front of their mirrors (paid for by you and me) ... that they cannot fathom how much OTHER matters of American life are important to Americans. This, from the very mouths of the "save the children" crowd --- but of course, why didn't I think of that, THEY are the very children about which they demand to be saved.

They've never grown up. You can tell by how seriously they lack the serious attention to eliminating the waste of government: "No. We can't do away with the political indoctrination, the diversity training, the condom dispensing so that Jeff and Jim can butt-f__k each other at the local high-school; that restriction on the lesser performing artists would be "mean," not to mention politically suicidal on campus. By all means, therefore, we should raise taxes and go all out to nationalize every aspect of human behavior, regulate it, and ... oh ... by the way ... we seem to have forgot what we are fighting for; see schools, following.

There has been absolutely NO establishment of concrete barriers in front of transportation paths to all manner of key buildings where, for example, our kids are during the day; there is no zig-zag layout, to reduce the speed of a vehicle.

There are no retired folks with cell-phones, sitting at the two opposite corners of the school yards. Done, in two-hour shifts so that nobody gets tired; radio checks and all; keeping an eye on the kids and the buildings. We have hundreds of thousands of retirees and semi-retirees who would be happy to perform these duties.

And isn't that the problem, really, the rejection by our governments, that we the people should shoulder our defense and defenses as they are our duties? These responsibilities are repugnant to the government class and its supporting minions of lawyers and policy maker "experts" with "expertise."

Well, you asked, John, and here's a stumper for the "soccor moms" ... and all of us:

Mine field detection every morning; at every school yard and every park.

Imagine the reaction to only three or four kids stumbling innocently along to the schoolhouse, only to lose their legs some fine morning soon?

Nothing that has happened to New York City, have we yet seen, that will be the response of Americans, everywhere, to the assault on our kids, by such minute weaponry.

Except, of course, the bulls__t from our politicians and "experts" on how "if they had only known when and where ... " --- the usual cowardly evasions and mental excerbations upon situations where otherwise the courage to address how and when may come the enemy, is part of the business of being prepared (includes logistics, position, instructions for action --- all missing on September 11th, thanks to the Bush [still running 75% of the Clinton] Administration).

The driveway to the schoolhouse and unhappy students are not the only threat out there, but the media and "something must be done about it" crowd cannot imagine much beyond what on the tube.

Well, there's a sea of school playgrounds and yards which can bring America to a halt.

The irony, perhaps in this tragedy, being, that some twit who is against mines and minefields takes it upon his or her self to make their point, much like our "Anthrax 'friend'."

Now, I don't have a memo that purports to the above, but I expect it as some among the possibilities.

And I have a plan for volunteers to help be observant, without government bureaucracy's permission to act!

Leaving to previous discussions, our states' governors' failures to request on Sept. 12, that volunteers proceed to all counties' fairgrounds to meet with emergency crews and immediately begin training as police, fire, EMT, and transportation support reservists; and, the matter of immediately starting production of backup emergency vehicles.

Because as we have seen, when the A Team goes down, there needs to be reserves on deck.

Excuse, its just a few of us who have seen this; the rest of our "experts" and "policy makers" have not got a clue and probably won't until it's delivered to them with a loud BANG!

[First_Salute]

Salute.

[Jeff Head]

In addition to that training, our founders had a simple, straightforard solution to crime/terror/tyranny ...

Allow every law-abiding citizen to be armed without infringement.

In the book series, particularly Volume II, I try and explain through horrific example why this is essential (as it always has been), and how it could work to be the REAL Homeland Security.

FRegards.

[Travis McGee]

The possibilities are limitless.

[El Gato]

China would be placing United States warships in the position of having to launch a counterattack on vessels located within Chinese territorial waters. And the problem with that would be?

There are definite problems trying to hit a ship in the clutter of the litoral environment with a remotely launched missle, but that's a technical problem, not a political one. There shouldn't be many third country ships within 5 nm of shore anyway, so at worst you hit the wrong enemy ship, which results in not hitting the dangerous one(s).

[seeker41]

Weird, I thought of this last month.

[Dukie]

"Currently, the threat from merchant ships is but half the trouble; the other being the multitude of river barges plying their way to half the U.S. population."

Also woven into Jeff's book "Breath of Fire" linked earlier in this thread.

[Dukie]

A salute to you for a good post.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[harpseal]

Yes I have seen the news reports about Tangos going adfter malls full of shoppers. Now some "scientists" have discovered that our electric power grid has transformers and lines that are vulnerable to attack. Further, these same scientists have noted that an interuption of electrical service in the Boston Washington corridor would be a disaster. As a solution they recommend putting up bullet proof barriers arround transformer substations and hardening the high voltage lines. Of course Freepers are already well awqare f these issues which were discussed in depth here months ago.

As to the use of merchant ships to attack an enemy. It goes back to at least the battle of Salamis. (Greeks versus Persian Empire pre-Alexander the Great). One could also mention Sir Francis Drake and many others.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[harpseal]

And isn't that the problem, really, the rejection by our governments, that we the people should shoulder our defense and defenses as they are our duties? These responsibilities are repugnant to the government class and its supporting minions of lawyers and policy maker "experts" with "expertise."

The problem is the only way to truly defend this nation against a capable and determined foe is by having the people of this nation manning the defenses.

In World War II the home guard in Great Britian manned the defense while the front line troops had expeditionary duties. In World War II in the USA state troops consisting of those to young or too old for active duty service provided a defense against invasion that would have stood up to any enemy foolish enough to land troops here. The populace in arms founded this nation and it was always viewed as the ultimate defense of this nation.

No I am not as capable an operator as I once was but I have seen the elephant and I can still shoot pretty straight out to 50 yards with a sidearm and 400 yards with a rifle and iron sights. I am observant and I will inform any police department of any suspicous activities I see. In short I can do some of the jobs that need to be done I shall do so willingly and I can train others in arms and observation and intel gathering. If we as a nation do not use our resources we may find ourselves on the losing end of this Jihad.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown